Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

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JimBrown257
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Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by JimBrown257 »

Hello,

This is my first time posting in the Balisong section; I'm mostly an auto-guy. I was wondering if anyone was a fan of The Hackman Butterfly knife or could, at least, explain why people seem to like them so much.

Is it just that they are hard to find now or is it that they have a history with the CIA? If it's true that the CIA issued them during the Vietnam War, they must be quality knives. Although, it seems weird that the CIA would use butterflies; there are many other types of knives that I'd imagine were more practical, especially if it's true that you can't flip them the same as typical butterflies. And why would they use a Finnish knife?

I've only seen them in pictures but they don't seem to be the most attractive Balisong. They kind of look like toys, like something you'd see in an article about comically dangerous toys people used to let kids play with.

I should mention, however, that I do really like the latch on the Hackman; I wish more Balisongs would use something like that to keep the handles together.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks,

-J
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linos
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by linos »

don`t know if it`s true but i would guess the gave a Finish knife `cos they did not wanted to get traced back to the USA and it`s Allies?
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TRYKER
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by TRYKER »

it could be the scandi grind, and good carbon steel blade. can't beat a good scandi grind !!!
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Viking45
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by Viking45 »

This is a very interesting subject. I have to agree with Tryker,being made in Finland alone can make these knives desirable to collectors.
The blade grind is a typical Scandinavian style.
There were other Finnish companies that made something similar. Sweden also produced several butterfly-style knives.
Finnish and Swedish butterflies may not have the ultra-slick action as others but then again they may have had the intention of being "disposable" 8)

Sometimes it is where/when a knife is made that makes it desirable.
Some of us love the Finnish Puukko knives,they are rather cheaply made but the blade grind and the blade steel are superb.
Never in my life have I handled a true Puukko that was dull. I often wonder if the steel is from another planet. :lol:
German Krupp,Swedish Sandvik and whatever the hell the Fins make is the best of the carbon steels.
In all actuality they are a 20 dollar knife but sell new for well over 100 bucks for a 4 or 5 inch blade. The larger ones can bring a couple hundred.
The older the more expensive.
On E-Bay you can see 11 or 12 bidders on an old German knife and if one ever sees a vintage Finnish Puukko for sale I have seen up to 33 to 37 bidders.

Strange thing this "Knife" hobby of ours.

Steel Trivia:
1- ArcelorMittal of Luxembourg is the largest steel production company on the planet.
2- China has the capabilities to produce the finest steel in the world (but we get all the left over crap stamped into junk)
3- The Vikings learned how to take the fine iron ore straight from peat found in the thousands of square miles of swamp-like land,burn it off and end up with a big ball of iron then proceed to hammer out an axe or sword. Basically cut a bunch of sod,burn or sift it as opposed to mining iron ore.
4- Norway,Sweden,Finland and parts of Germany were known for their super pure iron ore. Perhaps that is where they got famous for such great steels.
5- China,Russia,Ukraine and Brazil are also known for high quality ore....and lots of it.
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hanuman3
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by hanuman3 »

I have seen one of these at a flea market and passed it off as nothing special. However, the history behind this knife makes them tremendously more desirable.
“CANNIBAL, n. A gastronome of the old school who preserves the simple tastes and adheres to the natural diet of the pre-pork period.”
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polaria
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by polaria »

I'm of the age and nationality that when I was little these things were sold in hardware stores and they were pretty damn cheap. And I mean "disposable cheap". Construction crew and county gardeners tending public parks carried them. The great thing is that because they are not designed to be flipped around there is very little or no play on them. Once you latch it open its almost equal to a fixed blade. Plus, the sharpening on them is made in Scandinavian style so it cuts wood especially well. I'd say CIA probably wanted them for the fact that, unlike many other disposables, these could actually be used as a tool. If I still had one it would be the kind of knife I would take for camping or fishing... Or when fixing things around the house.
TMD
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by TMD »

I own one of the hackman balis from the past and two of the recent one produced. The original hackman has handles that are more like a mixture of plastic and rubber. The newer ones are more hard plastic. I like the hackman more, and I have been told that they float if they were ever dropped in water. I have not tried that but I think it will.
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Krab-E
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by Krab-E »

I had a chinese "fishing knife" version of this style, with jagged descaling notches on the top. Woulda been 30year ago, I think it retailed for $4. The crap plastic handles let it down.
I'd rather have a Bottle-in-Front-of-me, than a Frontal-Lobotomy!
polaria
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by polaria »

I just found out that there is at least one on-line store that actually still sells these... and in three different colors, no less:

http://www.pvk.com/webcat/HackmanFinishBalisongRD.shtml
http://www.pvk.com/webcat/HackmanFinish ... CLRD.shtml
http://www.pvk.com/webcat/HackmanFinishBalisongBL.shtml

Anyone know what the claim that they are New Old Stock (NOS) actually means in this case? Are they reproductions, new batch of original brand or original, unused production batch?
Chrisadamley
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by Chrisadamley »

polaria wrote:I just found out that there is at least one on-line store that actually still sells these... and in three different colors, no less:

http://www.pvk.com/webcat/HackmanFinishBalisongRD.shtml
http://www.pvk.com/webcat/HackmanFinish ... CLRD.shtml
http://www.pvk.com/webcat/HackmanFinishBalisongBL.shtml

Anyone know what the claim that they are New Old Stock (NOS) actually means in this case? Are they reproductions, new batch of original brand or original, unused production batch?
New old stock usually means...that its original, usually old product. But has never been used just stored. Like with parts for old guns...you will see new old stock. OLD ass part...but just like it was made because it was never used.

So i would guess those are old knives made awhile ago and just sat in a box. If they are sticking to what new old stock means.
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JimBrown257
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by JimBrown257 »

polaria wrote: Anyone know what the claim that they are New Old Stock (NOS) actually means in this case? Are they reproductions, new batch of original brand or original, unused production batch?

PVK is a repuatable source and those knives look legit. I've seen a few of them on Ebay go for a lot more than that so these ones might be a good deal.
polaria
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by polaria »

There is one little detail that vexes me... The pictures and the text clearly show the handles are attached with torx screws. Having handled these babies a lot when I was a kid I distinctly remember that you could not disassemble them as the handles were riveted. Plus, there is the thing that these Hackmans were already vanishing from stores by the time torx screws came popular in Finland. This is how the original constructions looked like:

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff23 ... 0_3128.jpg

http://s013.radikal.ru/i325/1102/c5/7a8455c4b33a.jpg

The second thing I'm sure I've never seen before is the clear plastic handles. Doesn't mean anything by itself, though, but if I'd have to guess I'd say these are assembled from original knife parts found somewhere when Hackman was cleaning up its warehouses. The blades look original, so it is even plausible that they were the only thing found and the nylon handles are more modern work. Torxes, I can say for sure, point to much more modern work in any case.

Now, I admit that I didn't really follow out how that specific model slowly died out and was removed from Hackmans product catalogue so maybe the last production batches were originally assembled like that. Can't really say. In any case there is a video review of the exact thing bought from PVK and it shows that these things seem to be very solid working knives. You can see the video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw75_ZKKUDw
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JimBrown257
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by JimBrown257 »

polaria wrote:The pictures and the text clearly show the handles are attached with torx screws.

You've got a good point (and good eye). I haven't seen another Hackman with torx screws.
polaria
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by polaria »

Right, I've done some asking around here in Finland. Even wrote to the original manufacturers in Hackman (now part of Fiskars) about the knife. The one with torx screws are not original ones, but later remakes. A smaller company called Pertemet Sorsakoski currently has the licence to produce these and have made the newer ones with torxes. The blades are basically same, but the handles are made of different plastic nowadays than they used to be. The handle fitting is also different so, unlike the oldies, you can flip the new ones.

As of the CIA connection, the true story, if there is one, is probably still hidden in CIA archives. However, the most credible story I've got is that they were used as the standard knife in a survival/emergency kit in Vietnam. Supposedly these knives had black handles market with "Retki" stamping, which means they would have been the very first ones produced during 60's (later ones didn't have the "Retki" stamp as far as I remember). This explanation is pretty credible, since the knife is light, folds into small and easily packagable square shape, its cheap and the grind is optimized for cutting wood (which is very important for survival knife to be used in jungle). All of which make it a great choice for survival/evasion kit use. Also, there were quite a few old finnish army long range recon patrolmen (Larry Thorne as his crew) serving in Green Berets at that time (1960's) so puukko type blade and grind were well known in those circles.

Whether it was actually used by CIA itself or if it was part of some sort of standardized foreign military aid survival kit is anyones guess. I would actually say the latter. I've heard stories saying that they were sometimes distributed to the locals, which in 60's Vietnam would mean they were probably handed out to Montagnards by the Green Berets. Which again makes sense for the reasons above.
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JimBrown257
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Re: Can someone explain the appeal of the Hackman?

Post by JimBrown257 »

Great research work!

Thanks a lot for the info; I have seen a lot of people asking about just the stuff you addressed. I will be sure to direct them to your post in the future.
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