AGA 13" Batwing Problem

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texans123
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by texans123 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:09 am

Bill DeShivs wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:41 pm
Open the knife to a 45 degree angle. Peen each side with a very small hammer and light taps.
Peen first side-test
peen second side- test
repeat as necessary
Do not bend the guards.
Thanks Bill - will give this a try. :)

Fishtail Picklock
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by Fishtail Picklock » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:22 am

You could do it in the "Bat room".
Fishtail Picklock

Hamnjam
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by Hamnjam » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:59 am

My dream knife! I hope you were able to get it working as great as it looks. One thing for sure is worth whatever effort it takes to fix it. I am a complete novice, but with a work of art this amazing i would email mr. Campolin and ask him to fix it professionally at any cost. No way would i file or permanently alter this knife myself in anyway. While i totally understand your frustration i would feel so lucky to have your problem, haha. You have one of the worlds true treasures for sure, its worth every dollar to fix right.

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Bill DeShivs
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by Bill DeShivs » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:30 am

Actually, the knife was made by Mr. Pascotto for Mr. Campolin.
It can be fixed correctly here, rather than risking sending it back to Italy.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives.

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texans123
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by texans123 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:18 pm

Hamnjam, glad you like the knife. Thanks.

Bill, I tried to peen it as you suggested and the problem still occurs. So it will most likely be heading your way for a repair in the future.

Hamnjam
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by Hamnjam » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:31 pm

Man i hope youre able to get this fixed, this is what my grail piece is. I cant wait to own one just like it. It will break my heart if theres anything wrong when i finally buy one. Everything about your knife looks amazing and its worth the effort to fix it right. Congrats on owning one of the finest knives ever made.

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picklocksrock
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by picklocksrock » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:36 pm

I bought one of these batwing like around 2012 and mine did the exact same thing. Sometimes it would open all the way sometimes it would not. I too had tried everything and I was never able to fix it. It just didn’t want to consistently open like it normally should. As much as I loved the knife, and knew how rare and special they are I couldn’t take it anymore. It actually got worse after just like a week or so. I sent it back! I hope you don’t have to go through the same crap I had to go through with it and can remedy the situation. Good luck to you and it is a gorgeous switchblade too.
“Tough times never last, but tough people do”
-Robert H. Shuller

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Bill DeShivs
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by Bill DeShivs » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:52 am

Before you send it to me, try this:
Look at the front of the bolsters/liners where the guard contacts them.
They are probably dented from the guard hitting them. This distorts the liners into the path pf the blade.
If this is the case, carefully file the bump out of the liners.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives.

bford1
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by bford1 » Sat May 16, 2020 2:16 pm

Texans, I have three of these knives and two of them have this same problem occasionally. I have one that has almost no play in the guards when opened. It's the one that opens perfectly. The other two have some play or slack in the guards when opened and they occasionally hang up like yours. But, none of mine have as much play in the guards as yours does. From the picture I think that mine that has the most slack in the guards when opened has about 1/2 as much play (or slack) as yours does. I'm no expert. But, my guess is that as long as there is that much play/slack there will be issues with it opening correctly. I'd send it to Bill. But, that's just me. BTW I'm in San Antonio. What part of TX are you from?

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ILikeStilettos
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by ILikeStilettos » Sat May 16, 2020 8:18 pm

Img_8627 in texans123's third post is what I call "scissoring". (If he had linked the photo instead of attaching it, I could have used it here to make my response more clear.) In any case, I don't buy Bill's response exactly as he stated it. The problem is the guards acting differently on opening instead of staying parallel to each other. What Bill means to accomplish by peening is to prevent the guards from rotating on the pin that secures them to the blade. Tightening the guards to the blade increases friction and is counterproductive. Ideally, I don't care if the guard's pin rotates in the blade or if the guards rotate on the pin, I just want them to move as a single unit. In many RPK swingers the two guards are shaped from a single piece of metal, connected at the "top" when the blade is deployed. This accomplishes the parallel goal while allowing everything to rotate as freely as possible, and these knives rarely show the issues you see on Italians. I frequently design with a second pin at the top to keep them parallel. This is a matter of aesthetics and more importantly, functionality.

When the blade is deployed, it rotates approximately 180 degrees, the guards rotate approximately 90 degrees, and all the energy to accomplish this movement is supplied by the kicker. Geometry uses a bit of this energy to rotate the guards, so the more freely they act, the better they are lubricated, the less energy they consume. It is also worth mentioning that diamond and shield shaped buttons from Campolin may rub against the scales making it more difficult to get a smooth push and causing energy to be lost because the sear is not fully retracted. So clean the sear hole and lube it, check the button action against the scales (when the blade is out, does it move smoothly or hang a bit? Enlarge the hole to let the button move freely, make sure its is cleaned of crud.) Lube the pivot pin and the guard pivot. Lastly manually operate the knife but don't lock it out. As you rotate the blade do the guards move freely? Are there burrs in the guards or the front bolster where things can hang slightly? The lower corner of the front bolsters (blade well side, all the way toward the front) is the place where geometry tries to pivot the guard. This corner should not be sharp, but rather microscopically rounded. Sometimes a couple of passes with a fine stone on this corner and the underside of the guards will smooth things.
Dave Sause
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(405) 694-3690

"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"

"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."

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texans123
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by texans123 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:08 pm

bford1 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:16 pm
Texans, I have three of these knives and two of them have this same problem occasionally. I have one that has almost no play in the guards when opened. It's the one that opens perfectly. The other two have some play or slack in the guards when opened and they occasionally hang up like yours. But, none of mine have as much play in the guards as yours does. From the picture I think that mine that has the most slack in the guards when opened has about 1/2 as much play (or slack) as yours does. I'm no expert. But, my guess is that as long as there is that much play/slack there will be issues with it opening correctly. I'd send it to Bill. But, that's just me. BTW I'm in San Antonio. What part of TX are you from?
Hi Bford1 - interesting information, and yes my guards have a lot of play in them. I've had the knife for years and it always worked well until recently. I'm near the Houston area fellow Texan!
Cheers -

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texans123
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by texans123 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:12 pm

ILikeStilettos wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:18 pm
Img_8627 in texans123's third post is what I call "scissoring". (If he had linked the photo instead of attaching it, I could have used it here to make my response more clear.) In any case, I don't buy Bill's response exactly as he stated it. The problem is the guards acting differently on opening instead of staying parallel to each other. What Bill means to accomplish by peening is to prevent the guards from rotating on the pin that secures them to the blade. Tightening the guards to the blade increases friction and is counterproductive. Ideally, I don't care if the guard's pin rotates in the blade or if the guards rotate on the pin, I just want them to move as a single unit. In many RPK swingers the two guards are shaped from a single piece of metal, connected at the "top" when the blade is deployed. This accomplishes the parallel goal while allowing everything to rotate as freely as possible, and these knives rarely show the issues you see on Italians. I frequently design with a second pin at the top to keep them parallel. This is a matter of aesthetics and more importantly, functionality.

When the blade is deployed, it rotates approximately 180 degrees, the guards rotate approximately 90 degrees, and all the energy to accomplish this movement is supplied by the kicker. Geometry uses a bit of this energy to rotate the guards, so the more freely they act, the better they are lubricated, the less energy they consume. It is also worth mentioning that diamond and shield shaped buttons from Campolin may rub against the scales making it more difficult to get a smooth push and causing energy to be lost because the sear is not fully retracted. So clean the sear hole and lube it, check the button action against the scales (when the blade is out, does it move smoothly or hang a bit? Enlarge the hole to let the button move freely, make sure its is cleaned of crud.) Lube the pivot pin and the guard pivot. Lastly manually operate the knife but don't lock it out. As you rotate the blade do the guards move freely? Are there burrs in the guards or the front bolster where things can hang slightly? The lower corner of the front bolsters (blade well side, all the way toward the front) is the place where geometry tries to pivot the guard. This corner should not be sharp, but rather microscopically rounded. Sometimes a couple of passes with a fine stone on this corner and the underside of the guards will smooth things.
Thank you Dave, I will try your suggestions and give this knife a good cleaning, as you outlined here, and test again. Thanks to Bill as well for your assistance.

sammy the blade
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by sammy the blade » Sun May 24, 2020 11:28 pm

Good to see you posting again Dave!

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ILikeStilettos
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by ILikeStilettos » Tue May 26, 2020 11:50 am

Hey, Sam, I read but don't write much. Nobody pays attention anyway. Spend most of my time on Facebook Artistic Switchblade Knives and Raspberry Pi and DIY Projects.
Dave Sause
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690

"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"

"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."

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texans123
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Re: AGA 13" Batwing Problem

Post by texans123 » Sat May 30, 2020 5:19 pm

Hi Gents -

Re-read this thread and spent some time working on the Batwing the last couple of days. Steps taken as follows:

1. Carefully tightened the guards. One guard nice and tight, other guard still has a bit of play, but overall better.
2. As Bill suggested, lightly filed the liners around the front bolsters. Manually moved blade to detect where the blade tightened up, and did more light filing on the liners. This reduced the tight spot, and I filed some more to smooth the liners out.
3. Gave the knife the WD-40 bath and then wiped it down and let it finish drying in the hot Texas sun, just briefly.
4. Put some grease on the blade where it locks into place on the front of the knife.

After all of this, the knife action went from not successfully locking up at all, to locking up about 90% of the time. So, really good progress.

Today, worked on the one guard a bit more, and then some more light filing on the liners around the bolsters. Final result, I fired the knife 30+ times and it fired hard and locked up tight 100%, each and every time! Just fired it 5 more times as I'm writing this email, and locked up each time with no hanging or misfire.

So, I sure hope this nice knife continues to work well. And thank you to Bill and others for your comments, suggestions etc. Much appreciated.

Cheers -
Jeff

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