Could you? Would you?

Razor Kitten · Post by **Razor Kitten** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:30 am

Nope, not me...I just don't think I could step out on this without first ingesting many Coronas or a mind altering chemical!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17707007/?GT1=9145

j.a.c. · Post by **j.a.c.** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:37 am

sure why not.

Dick Carroll · Post by **Dick Carroll** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:29 am

Have been watching the coverage on that on the news. I guess it's going on everywhere. The commercialization of places like that kinda piss me off. Around here, the national forest spring areas are pretty much all screwed up by the government trying to go in, fence the place off, build structures, make paths designed to keep ya off the real ground and then charge a fee just to get in, charge a fee to park, charge a fee to swim, open a concession stand for food and drinks, charge a fee to rent a canoe, etc. All for a small fee, you too can be able to enjoy the areas that we already own for God's sake. The American Indians should be able to do it too. I wish them well. The national parks are owned by us. We should not have to pay to tread our own ground. Not that I'm against trying keep up with expenses, but dammit, there would be no need for expenses if there wasn't anything to keep up. I rarely go thru a gate to visit the places I want to see. Thankfully if you go by boat or canoe, they can't charge you to visit your own property. That is unless you debark on the ground inside the park where, yes they want to charge you admission to your own ground. In my honest opinion, I much preferred it when you could just go visit the areas in their natural state. All the upgrades made by man have never improved on the natural glory of the wilderness areas. Sorry, rant over......

Dances with Emus · Post by **Dances with Emus** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:17 am

I found America to be very much like that yes. I also read that all that money that goes to the national parks and the Rangers pretty much get spent on ruining the areas completely and in most case, irrevocatively. As the money is not spent on finding solutions to problems more so than anything else.

Dick Carroll wrote:Have been watching the coverage on that on the news. I guess it's going on everywhere. The commercialization of places like that kinda piss me off. Around here, the national forest spring areas are pretty much all screwed up by the government trying to go in, fence the place off, build structures, make paths designed to keep ya off the real ground and then charge a fee just to get in, charge a fee to park, charge a fee to swim, open a concession stand for food and drinks, charge a fee to rent a canoe, etc. All for a small fee, you too can be able to enjoy the areas that we already own for God's sake. The American Indians should be able to do it too. I wish them well. The national parks are owned by us. We should not have to pay to tread our own ground. Not that I'm against trying keep up with expenses, but dammit, there would be no need for expenses if there wasn't anything to keep up. I rarely go thru a gate to visit the places I want to see. Thankfully if you go by boat or canoe, they can't charge you to visit your own property. That is unless you debark on the ground inside the park where, yes they want to charge you admission to your own ground. In my honest opinion, I much preferred it when you could just go visit the areas in their natural state. All the upgrades made by man have never improved on the natural glory of the wilderness areas. Sorry, rant over......

Razor Kitten · Post by **Razor Kitten** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:20 am

j.a.c. wrote: sure why not.

I guess I am the only one that has a problem with heights. I am ok if it is a roller coaster, but cant do it when I am just standing and looking down. I think I would pass out as soon as I stepped out and looked down.

tanto · Post by **tanto** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:53 am

Dick Carroll wrote: In my honest opinion, I much preferred it when you could just go visit the areas in their natural state. All the upgrades made by man have never improved on the natural glory of the wilderness areas. Sorry, rant over......

I think there are still many places you can visit without payng any fee. And yes, there are NP where you pay. But if you use Golden eagle pass the fee is not that bad. I wish we (in Czech) had such natural wonders

. I would gladly pay to see them...

texasmad · Post by **texasmad** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:10 pm

I have been lucky enough to travel and see many of the wonders found here in the United States and every time I have left with a deep sense of appreciation for them and a lasting memory. Most of them also left me feeling very small and helped me realize that there is so much more in this world then just what goes on in my everyday life.

Dick Carroll · Post by **Dick Carroll** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:45 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm still in awe of the natural places. Maybe being on a fixed income now has made me an even cheaper bastard. I was brought up to take care of those places. The people I hang out with are all in the same frame of mind. When we go enjoy the areas in the forests or on the waters of this state, we leave with more than we took. If we camp somewhere, it is kept clean while we are there and a general policing is done before leaving where we pick up all that we brought and anything left by those before us. If everybody did that, the natural places will stay pretty. These places are purchased by taxes we pay, license fees we pay as sportsmen and sportswomen. And alot is donated too. Down here in Florida, we have the Ocala National Forest which is over 500,000 acres. There has been a push lately to curb destruction by off-road vehicles, which to some degree, I agree with, as I know it does make a difference. The only roads now that you can travel on are the numbered forest roads. That's ok, but all the others have been closed to vehicle traffic and citations are given for doing it. There are more unnumbered ones than numbered ones. Mostly made by people thru the years to get to places that didn't have numbered roads. The people that use these roads are the ones that actually go out and enjoy these places. Tourists don't much go there cause they are not on the maps. Usually they take some getting to. The hunters and off road riders on 3 and 4 wheelers and hikers and campers may butt heads occasionally with one sport interfering with another but all deserve a place to go do their thing. But in all due respect to the powers that be in trying to curb ecological destruction, I'd much rather see a road going to some neat place in the national forest than to see the neat places being disturbed much more with paved parking lots, fences, concessions stands, smiling Forestry officials telling me it's gonna cost to get in to see how we improved on mother nature......

butch · Post by **butch** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:10 pm

I guess I am the only one that has a problem with heights.

wanna bet,thats why I gave up roofing my legs turn to jelly,you never get me to walk across that skywalk.

jarvis · Post by **jarvis** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:36 pm

Makes me a little queasy just looking at the pictures......

Post by **tr4252** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:57 pm

I understand where you're coming from, Dick, and I agree with you. The problem is, as you mentioned, that for those of us who respect the land, there's always a contingent of people who generally screw things up. It's not just the trash and tire ruts; they start fires, damage trees, fall down and try to sue the state, etc. Seems wherever you go, somebody has to piss in the well.

Tom

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:10 pm

ONE question but several sub-questions

Would I walk it ?
IF I overcame my dislike of heights.
Should it have been built ?
I don't think so but the Tribe felt it should.
Who owns the land ?
All of us or the "Native Americans" ?
Who ARE "Native Americans" ?????????
ALL the really old Skeletal Remains found in North America are "CAUCASIAN" NOT the Siberian/Indian stereotype.
ALL of these were gone when Europeans arrived [returned?] in 1492 !!!!!!
Presumably they were "displaced" [killed] by the LATER Siberian/Indian types !!!!!!
The oldest skull found in North America [Mexico City] is Caucasian !!!Central America ? SOME Archaeological [artwork/sculpture] evidence hints at African !
South America [cave/rockwall art] ? Possibly Australian Aborigine !!
Does an attraction like this deface/polute the Enviroment ?
Does a Log Cabin ?
How about a 3 bedroom ranch ?
A 2 story house ?
The "Skywalk" question raises lots of deeper questions and the answers to these are a matter of serious debate on several levels

Dick Carroll · Post by **Dick Carroll** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:10 pm

You are right Al, Humans leave scars wherever they go....but I damn well won't be settin up a toll booth at my neighbors driveway to charge em to go home....

j.a.c. · Post by **j.a.c.** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:01 pm

Razor Kitten wrote:
j.a.c. wrote: sure why not.
I guess I am the only one that has a problem with heights. I am ok if it is a roller coaster, but cant do it when I am just standing and looking down. I think I would pass out as soon as I stepped out and looked down.

I used to do a lot of mountain climbing and have been on ledges a couple feet wide with a 400-500 foot drop.
I forced myself to overcome the queezy feeling you get.
One trail on I was on was real narrow and it was a windy day , I got to the middle of it and froze.
Took me a good 1/2 hour before I could force myself to move and have never had a problem with heights or vertigo since.

horizonod · Post by **horizonod** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:15 pm

Both sides of the debate are easy to see. Personally I dispise "sanitized" places that the government has taken over and made partially accessable to the masses that want to drive up and walk 20 feet to see a natural wonder. I avoid those places like the plague. I find much more enjoyment in finding something less awesome without the masses.

That said I can see why the government has to (in some cases) do it. If the government didn't oversee and protect these places the maurauding hourds would tramp their way into them and eventually destroy the place.

When I come across trash in a pristine setting I pick it up. There are a thousand others who throw it down. Natural wonders need to be protected for future generations and, sadly, the only way to do it is put them behind gates and have personnel there to oversee things.

That "bridge" is, IMHO, an abomination perpetated on a spectacular area. If you want to know what it feels like to look 4000 feet down then go to the natural edge and look down OR go to the bottom and look up. If you don't want to do that buy a friggin postcard.

Would I walk on it. If I went there, probably yes, but it would take some girding of loins.