Antique TOMAHAWKS

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button_man
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by button_man »

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I hope these are acceptable as "blade" items, despite not being knives..... picked them up at the flea this morning.....

The wooden-handled piece could have been used as a general-purpose tool around somebody's farmyard, lumber mill, etc.
This was probably known as "belt axe" back then -- I'm guessing 1870s or so? Clearly hand-forged; not a factory production item.

The iron hawk really is 100% iron -- the handle may look like a piece of pipe but it isn't -- it's hand-forged, and there is also a
hand-forged screw -- NOT factory-made -- used as a finial in the base of the handle. The head is a masterpiece of clean, simple, elegant lines.
The seller believes that a very accomplished blacksmith may have crafted this piece to hang in his shop as a display item to advertise
his level of skill. Original red paint. Has a great feel in the hand. Possibly pre-Civil War.

If anyone can offer any information on either of these (alas, no markings of any kind on either) I would be most grateful !!
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whippersnapper
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Location: Michigan

Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by whippersnapper »

cool!
sammy the blade
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Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by sammy the blade »

You could make a leaker out of someone with that.
2024 candidate for president
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Billyfish
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Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 8:39 pm
Location: Amity, MA

Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by Billyfish »

This site could be useful for identification:
https://www.furtradetomahawks.com/spike ... ks--3.html
button_man
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by button_man »

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Billyfish ~ Thanks SO much for that link! My tomahawks tick virtually EVERY box on the criteria list at the start of page 3;
the only possible exception is that the blade edges of the iron hawk are slightly rounded. Other than that, I believe that
both hawks hit every single mark.

This now indicates that the wooden-handled piece may well have been intended as a weapon, and not simply as a general-purpose
tool as I first thought. And of particular interest is this one remark: "Some were..... made entirely of wrought iron”

I have written to the author of that site to arrange authentication of the hawks. This will entail shipping them to him;
waiting until his backlog clears and he gets to my pieces; and then waiting for them to arrive back. All this may take
up to a couple of months.... possibly more.... but I promise to share the results as soon as I have them.
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Wally J. Corpse
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Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by Wally J. Corpse »

Greetings, Mr. button man-

Your 'Tomahawks' appear to actually be slater's picks, roofing tools. The narrow chopping blade is typical, but the giveaway is the long spike, used for making slater's nail holes. I have similar tools. The tools have evolved since yours were made, and now have a sharpened edge between handle and head, for slate cutting, and a cast nail puller on the head center.

AS ever,
Your ol' pal,
Wally J. Corpse
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Wally J. Corpse
Level Zero: True Jerk
Posts: 1864
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Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by Wally J. Corpse »

Greetings, Mr. button man-

Yikes! your old pal, WJC shall now admit to a glaringly silly error, to wit: I got so excited whence eye thought I saw an old roofing ally that I somewhat practically entirely missed the obvious, thy tomahawks have no flattened nailing surface, rumored to be important to en-drive a nail.
Therefore, please proceed AS if nothing happened...

AS ever,
Your ol' pal,
Wally J. Corpse

P.S. Ye are allowed to mock/vilify me AS less than a tool expert, like you.
..
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Billyfish
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Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by Billyfish »

It will be interesting to read what the owner of the site will tell you about them.
You know what they say about opinions though.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28106
I might posit that at least one of them could possibly be a boarding axe from ye olden daze of the age of fighting sail; their use being to cut away fallen rigging and also to deliver an occasional quietus to an enemy combatant. The only thing that gives me pause about this theory is that the cutting edge seems very narrow, and the diameter of a stay, or shroud would most likely be at least four inches.
Was I boarding an enemy vessel I would much prefer to use a cutlass.

Yo Ho if you catch my drift.
button_man
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Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by button_man »

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Mr Corpse ~ I welcome all who are willing to share information with me; and if the data later appear to be in error, this in no way diminishes my appreciation for the time and effort spent on your part. Also, it takes backbone to fess up to a gaffe. Warmest regards to you, sir.

Billyfish ~ For reasons that I can't quite put my finger on, neither of these really says "marine use" to me. Also it is unlikely that such a device would be intended for marine use when made entirely of forged iron.... it would rust away to nothing very quickly. It would seem more prudent to simply have a well-oiled iron head fastened to a wooden haft. (You have to have spent time in northern New England to appreciate my original (and brilliant) pirate joke: "What letter do Maine pirates leave off the ends of their words?" "Arrrrr" ) :)

Unfortunately, Mr Miller has replied that for numerous reasons, he no longer does mail-in appraisals. He is willing to offer off-the-record opinions based on photographs, but these will not have his COA nor bear as much weight if / when an item is offered for sale. I am still in discussion with him, and will of course post updates as circumstances warrant.
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Billyfish
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Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by Billyfish »

Hopefully a positive identification will come along with time. Northern New England has been the ancestral home for some 380+ years so I can definitely appreciate the humor involved in your response. :lol:
Many nautical weapons were Japanned in those days to inhibit rust. Slush, or fat from the cook pots was used to keep lines supple and to lubricate blocks in the rigging.
The boarding axe was simply an idea tossed into the mix of this discussion and is not a hill I am willing to die upon.
I do find the metal haft most puzzling though.
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JulesVane
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Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by JulesVane »

I'm reminded of ice pick axes used for climbing, but that would be too easy :-)
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"By accepting you as you are, I do not necessarily abandon all hope of your improving"- My Wife (1963-Present)
button_man
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by button_man »

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Billyfish ~ Our people could have arrived on the same boat.... mine got here in 1638. Unfortunately, for generations they frittered away
their time being poor farmers instead of the far more worthwhile endeavor of piling up valuable real estate for me to inherit.

Smearing rancid tallow on everything in sight on deck must have reduced some of the olfactory charm from the bracing sea air.
Still, at least it gave the rats something to eat......

JV ~ If you look at the criteria list on that link that Billyfish provided in his first post here, you will note a number of issues
that Mr. Miller uses to separate true spike tomahawks from ice axes, fire axes, etc. I believe that my two pieces clear every hurdle.

UPDATE: Mr. Miller has very kindly agreed to do a photo opinion first; and if either/both pieces seem good to him, then to allow me
to mail them to him for the full appraisal and C.O.A. Naturally I am pleased and grateful at this turn of events. Stay tuned ~
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button_man
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Re: Antique TOMAHAWKS

Post by button_man »

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Well, the decision is finally in...... and Mr. Miller does not think that these pieces qualify as bona-fide Spike Tomahawks.
He feels that the wood-handled piece is circa 1899 and was probably a general-purpose tool around a farm, mill, etc.

The iron piece seems more tricky.... although Mr. Miller does not believe that it was made as a weapon, he couldn't advance
any decisive rationale for its actual intended purpose. He ventured the possibilities of "fire axe" or "ice axe" but couldn't say
for sure; and I don't think it could have been either. First of all, it's just not heavy enough to be a fire axe; no way could you
smash through a door or wall with that slender blade. Second, just being near a fire for about two minutes would make that
iron handle too hot to touch.

It might conceivably been used to chop ice at home -- it certainly isn't rugged enough for commercial use-- but why on
earth would the handle be perfectly round? You would have to keep adjusting your grip constantly, since there is no way
to keep the blade oriented forward.... the handle will easily twist in your grip. When I brought up this issue, Mr. Miller
acknowledged that it is the only tomahawk-type piece he has ever seen with a round handle. This alone seems noteworthy,
since he has literally viewed thousands of tomahawk-type items over many years.

So what WAS it made for? We may never know for sure. Since that round handle makes the piece almost impossible to use
for any kind of practical purpose, I have to wonder whether it was made for display. As I mentioned previously, a skilled
blacksmith may have forged this piece to hang in his shop; or perhaps it was displayed and/or used ceremonially by a
fraternal society, such as the "Society of Red Men" founded in 1813 by veterans of the Revolutionary War. All that Mr. Miller
could say is that he thinks that it dates to the mid-1800s; and might possibly (though not necessarily) be European.

Well, thus ends the saga. I wish I had more exciting news; but I've learned a lot, and I have a couple of moderately
interesting pieces to look at..... if only they could talk........
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