"Samsend" Swinguards

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chakotay
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:48 pm

"Samsend" Swinguards

Post by chakotay »

It's been quite a while since posting. Mostly because traditional switchblades (my main interest) are almost non-existent here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. However, I recently acquired these "Samsend" branded 10" swingaurds and wanted to post some picts. Don't know what eastern country they hail from and I'm not an expert, but IMHO they are actually BETTER quality than my comparable Italian stilettos . . . at least they look and feel that way. They're straight (no banana blades); they don't peek; they have no gaps in their liners; and unlike my other stilettos, they came razor-sharp out of the box. I accidentally sliced myself upon first handling them.

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jerryk25
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Location: Pittsburgh

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by jerryk25 »

They look nice . . .
I think I may send for one. . . even tho' I'm not a swinguard fan.
Your close-up photos look nice . . . .
I always liked a black and white set. . . .

The last photo of a hand holding the black scale.
I detect a "swell belly" pregnant look to the blade grind.
and a definite Off-Center blade grind bevel. . . .
makes the very tip look off-center also.
Kind of annoys me.
All that effort to make a nice handle.
and it looks like the guy grinding the blade was drunk.
You'd think they would make a grinding jig to make the bevel and cutting edge consistent and straight.

It must be some sort of ethnic intrinsic value that appeals to the oriental eye.
(Like how I'm slovak and am fascinated by walnut wood and black steel.)
(I eat mushrooms and drink basement floor temperature Iron City beer also. . . .)

I had a few of the China tilt bolsters that had really bad swell bellies.
They were sharp. . . I'll say that's been true for a lot of china knives.
but I'm not about to test how brittle they are . . .I just know they would snap If I pry something.
Tom19176
Posts: 3619
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:23 am

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by Tom19176 »

I have not handled these yet, but I have seen other models maybe from the same maker. They are fairly well made but as Jerry said, the steel is not as good as the Italian ones. Since they are not marked with another companies name ( the miss marked AKC's and such) I think they are good values knives
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NorthCarolinaDude
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 2:22 am
Location: The South

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by NorthCarolinaDude »

Pretty sure they're Chinese and every time I find someone reviewing them they talk about how well done they are. Tight fitting, snappy and fairly heavy. I have been considering one of them in Snakewood that I've seen on various places. MSB recently started offering them too simply because of demand. People like them and the value they bring, and hell, they're swingers so they're fun!

If I had one I'd likely let my brother-in-law play with it, unlike my AGAs. ;)

Peace.
Fishtail Picklock
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Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 11:10 pm
Location: Forest Grove, OR

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by Fishtail Picklock »

They are Chinese all right. I don't know about the quality, but they are definitely Chinese. :roll:
Fishtail Picklock
LD57
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:08 pm

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by LD57 »

Is “Samsend” the Chinese word for Leverletto?😜
Seriously, those are nice looking Swinguards.
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jerryk25
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Location: Pittsburgh

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by jerryk25 »

The blade grind annoys me to the extreme.

After spending more than 45 years drawing things
with symmetry, balance, and 90 degree right angles,
I have developed an Attitude.

I LIKE the knife, for the cost, and the heavy material.
I will most probably buy a white one.

BUT. it will always be a "C grade" knife.
1 point off for "off-center" blade grind,
1 point off for "chunky-monkey" not sleek in your pocket.

I draw sometimes for Walt at Latama LLC.
He sends me parts, I scan them and convert them to CAD files.
Turn his conversations with designers into a "record of Information" drawing.
to standardize production across several fabricators.

Every Latama Blade ( separate from handles ) is right on specification.
It's the first and most important part of the knife.

I've seen wiggly safeties, and a banana now and then.
But for the most part, no knife ever gets below B+,
and are usually an A. . or maybe an "A minus" . . . .but generally "Grade A".

I want to tell the China Fabricator to quit with the
sloppy blade grind. get a grinding jig.

I hope it's not some Super-Ego doing a "Signature Swoop" grind.

For your amusement and critique fodder.
(web images not-to-scale)
attached is an overlay of a China Blade on a Latama swinger blade.
attached is a digitized 5mm picklock blade and spine inset on a flatbed scan.

Compare the grinds. . . .
(scans focus better than cameras. . .you can see my oil fingerprints on the 5mm close-up)
Attachments
scan-06-swinger-Blade-41.jpg
scan-06-swinger-Blade-41.jpg (190.52 KiB) Viewed 1945 times
scan-7-10in-picklock-Blade-20aa.jpg
scan-7-10in-picklock-Blade-20aa.jpg (187.48 KiB) Viewed 1945 times
chakotay
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:48 pm

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by chakotay »

I agree. These are probably not on par with the quality of a Latama . . . . but they are $25 and readily available.

I've been in the switchblade collecting hobby for 20 years and have never even SEEN a real Latama knife (in my area anyway).
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Killgar
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:52 am

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by Killgar »

jerryk25 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 10:40 pm The blade grind annoys me to the extreme.

After spending more than 45 years drawing things
with symmetry, balance, and 90 degree right angles,
I have developed an Attitude.

I LIKE the knife, for the cost, and the heavy material.
I will most probably buy a white one.

BUT. it will always be a "C grade" knife.
1 point off for "off-center" blade grind,
1 point off for "chunky-monkey" not sleek in your pocket.

I draw sometimes for Walt at Latama LLC.
He sends me parts, I scan them and convert them to CAD files.
Turn his conversations with designers into a "record of Information" drawing.
to standardize production across several fabricators.

Every Latama Blade ( separate from handles ) is right on specification.
It's the first and most important part of the knife.

I've seen wiggly safeties, and a banana now and then.
But for the most part, no knife ever gets below B+,
and are usually an A. . or maybe an "A minus" . . . .but generally "Grade A".

I want to tell the China Fabricator to quit with the
sloppy blade grind. get a grinding jig.

I hope it's not some Super-Ego doing a "Signature Swoop" grind.

For your amusement and critique fodder.
(web images not-to-scale)
attached is an overlay of a China Blade on a Latama swinger blade.
attached is a digitized 5mm picklock blade and spine inset on a flatbed scan.

Compare the grinds. . . .
(scans focus better than cameras. . .you can see my oil fingerprints on the 5mm close-up)
Hey Jerryk25, sort of a casual inquiry here, but if a person wanted to have knife parts mass produced, like switchblade leaf springs, would you know how they might go about it?

I ask because you mention that you make CAD files. I've done a little online research on the subject with the thought of possibly having some parts mass-produced so that I can produce my Cold Steel Ti-Lite auto conversions in greater numbers and with less work. I researched some local laser cutting places here in San Diego, but they want CAD files, and I don't even know what a CAD file is, other than what a laser cutter uses to know how to cut out a shape. So I researched some local places that create CAD files, and it looked like they want technical drawings to make the CAD files. At that point I felt kinda overwhelmed and didn't bother researching places that make drawings to be converted into CAD files. The whole thing became quite a rabbit hole.

But if you know of any fabricators that mass-produce switchblade parts, and you yourself can create a CAD file for such parts to be made, I figure you might be the best person to ask.

I'd be grateful to hear whatever you might have to say on the subject. Like I said, it's just a casual inquiry at this point.
Avatar- Ti-Lite Auto Conversion. Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79nia-_DzU

My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
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jerryk25
Posts: 601
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:30 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by jerryk25 »

When you say "make a spring" . . .it is way too vague of a spring description.
A, B and C. . .no CAD files are required.

A . . .a round wire spring in 1 only rizzuto. . .buy piano wire, cut it and bend it.. . . and its already a spring.
same with kit knife tilt bolsters.

B. . . flat bar spring . . . . cold cut it out of keystock or flat bar (don't grind it too hot to touch)
then send it to someone with a kiln to harden and temper it.

C. . .complex "y" shaped spring with a kickspring / picklock spine and locktab ? ( like the 5mm shown above)
and you are making 1 or 2 , same as above, hand cut it and twist the tab and cold file it and drill it.
and send it away to be hardened.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
If you are making 100 complex springs, then they are cookie cutter cut out of metal.
The cookie cutter is made of 2 heavy blocks that are cut and hardened.
In WWII, german luger parts where cut by machine (vertical mill. . a drill press with moving table)
You did the cutting by cranking a knob like closing a vise. . and you needed experience.

Today, a machine whittles it out of metal by using various memory methods.

The oldest is CNC tape, a computer numerically controlled system. where machine pattern
is memorized on a magnetic tape, only read by the machine itself.
Small shops still have this. . .you push the drill press cutting head to a depth, and hit a "memory button"
and it marks the tape. .. .500 crank and drill later. . .you have the first part and a tape.
The machine reads back it's own tape and repeats the actions.

a newer method is "AutoCAD to SurfCAM" . . .You draw a picture on the computer in a software that is
not like photoshop which is "Raster" display (photo copier) which is for images and cartoons only. . .
but on a "Vector" display, which only remembers specific points like a math formula.
Then the software gives you one of several types of files that are compatible
or can be converted to a machine language than controls servos on the "drill press" vertical mill.
Different shops have different requirements. . .either 2d flat patterns or 3D modeling.
Often you do a conventional drawing with regular dimensions as a record people can read.
Accompanied by a similar drawing that is dimensions with terms that can be "typed" into other CNC machines.
And also accompanied by a special file without any text or title block that the CNC machine can just "see and use".

I design in my head what I want by drawing several "flat 2D" images, then compile them into a 3D model.
The 3D image is saved as a DXF file ( data exchange file ) . . . . and given to a shop.
They do a test cutting, you put the pieces together into a bad version of the part, and then "tweak" it into shape
by revising the drawing and the model. . . it could take weeks or months.

The newest method is to draw the object into 3-D . . . .and the newest machines just "see" the 3-d object in
virtual reality, and start whittling away at metal. whether you are making the "cookie cutter die. . .or the actual spring.
This also has it's draw-backs . . . youngsters who know the software, do not know tooling or tolerances.

you need to know what the shop is able to use.
Modern waterjet cutting online does the old "dress pattern" . . X-Y-Z dimensions drawing. . .
modern 5 axis milling is most often 3D modeling.

It is really involved. . . . . to describe what to do. . . .
I may write up a better explanation and post it later this week under a different forum string.
But. . . I'm getting old and my concentration is not what it used to be.

As far as ACTUALLY making a working shop drawing.
I pretty much quit doing "super critical work" about a year ago. I just "cartoon" now. . simple illustrations.
My spouse passed. . .and I'm 71. . .and these last 2 years took a lot out of me.
I fall asleep a lot. . .it could take me forever to write the explanation.
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Killgar
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:52 am

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by Killgar »

jerryk25 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 12:11 am When you say "make a spring" . . .it is way too vague of a spring description.
A, B and C. . .no CAD files are required.

A . . .a round wire spring in 1 only rizzuto. . .buy piano wire, cut it and bend it.. . . and its already a spring.
same with kit knife tilt bolsters.

B. . . flat bar spring . . . . cold cut it out of keystock or flat bar (don't grind it too hot to touch)
then send it to someone with a kiln to harden and temper it.

C. . .complex "y" shaped spring with a kickspring / picklock spine and locktab ? ( like the 5mm shown above)
and you are making 1 or 2 , same as above, hand cut it and twist the tab and cold file it and drill it.
and send it away to be hardened.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
If you are making 100 complex springs, then they are cookie cutter cut out of metal.
The cookie cutter is made of 2 heavy blocks that are cut and hardened.
In WWII, german luger parts where cut by machine (vertical mill. . a drill press with moving table)
You did the cutting by cranking a knob like closing a vise. . and you needed experience.

Today, a machine whittles it out of metal by using various memory methods.

The oldest is CNC tape, a computer numerically controlled system. where machine pattern
is memorized on a magnetic tape, only read by the machine itself.
Small shops still have this. . .you push the drill press cutting head to a depth, and hit a "memory button"
and it marks the tape. .. .500 crank and drill later. . .you have the first part and a tape.
The machine reads back it's own tape and repeats the actions.

a newer method is "AutoCAD to SurfCAM" . . .You draw a picture on the computer in a software that is
not like photoshop which is "Raster" display (photo copier) which is for images and cartoons only. . .
but on a "Vector" display, which only remembers specific points like a math formula.
Then the software gives you one of several types of files that are compatible
or can be converted to a machine language than controls servos on the "drill press" vertical mill.
Different shops have different requirements. . .either 2d flat patterns or 3D modeling.
Often you do a conventional drawing with regular dimensions as a record people can read.
Accompanied by a similar drawing that is dimensions with terms that can be "typed" into other CNC machines.
And also accompanied by a special file without any text or title block that the CNC machine can just "see and use".

I design in my head what I want by drawing several "flat 2D" images, then compile them into a 3D model.
The 3D image is saved as a DXF file ( data exchange file ) . . . . and given to a shop.
They do a test cutting, you put the pieces together into a bad version of the part, and then "tweak" it into shape
by revising the drawing and the model. . . it could take weeks or months.

The newest method is to draw the object into 3-D . . . .and the newest machines just "see" the 3-d object in
virtual reality, and start whittling away at metal. whether you are making the "cookie cutter die. . .or the actual spring.
This also has it's draw-backs . . . youngsters who know the software, do not know tooling or tolerances.

you need to know what the shop is able to use.
Modern waterjet cutting online does the old "dress pattern" . . X-Y-Z dimensions drawing. . .
modern 5 axis milling is most often 3D modeling.

It is really involved. . . . . to describe what to do. . . .
I may write up a better explanation and post it later this week under a different forum string.
But. . . I'm getting old and my concentration is not what it used to be.

As far as ACTUALLY making a working shop drawing.
I pretty much quit doing "super critical work" about a year ago. I just "cartoon" now. . simple illustrations.
My spouse passed. . .and I'm 71. . .and these last 2 years took a lot out of me.
I fall asleep a lot. . .it could take me forever to write the explanation.
I appreciate your time and all the information Jerry. Below is a picture of the spring I'm referring to. I'd like at least a hundred, maybe several hundred depending on how much it would cost me. I imagine that, like myself, if a person purchased a switchblade, they would also like the option of buying extra springs, just in case. And since my knives feature an all-screw construction, and are easy to disassemble and reassemble, it would be easy for anyone to replace a spring.

Ideally, I would simply give an existing spring to a company, they would tell me how much it would cost me to make a particular number, I'd pay them, and they would deliver the finished springs. But I know that things aren't always as easy and simple as we would like.

Image
Avatar- Ti-Lite Auto Conversion. Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79nia-_DzU

My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
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jerryk25
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Location: Pittsburgh

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by jerryk25 »

I just re-read your post. . . .
Shows you how senile I am . . . .

Cold steel ti-lite conversions.

If you have hand made a part , *( I need to see the actual part and measure it.)
first you need a technical drawing. . .
I sit with a micrometer and measure your part. . .and produce a drawing anyone can read.
(not a special file. . a true image, but not to scale. .a jpg file will do.)

Then the shops bidding on making the part. are all quoting you the same idea.
It saves you time discussing the part, and months later, the drawing is still there, still the same.

Some shops will just give the drawing to a kid who sits and keys in the data into his computer
and he generates a CAD file . . .and you pay for that.
Even before you ever pay for materials, time on the machine, and shipping of product.

Other shops do not want to waste time on just a few parts.
They make their money on repeat business and mass production.
So they want a ready made CAD file. . . .
and depending on the part . . . either a 3D model. . . .ready made to drop in place plug-n-play.
or a flat dress pattern to waterjet cut out a generic shape. . . and YOU have to finish the part.
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jerryk25
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Location: Pittsburgh

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by jerryk25 »

Step 1 . . .measure the part

I take field notes, and do a hyper accurate CAD drawing

This drawing shows a large car carburetor velocity stack.

but there are 2 insets showing a knife part.
Attachments
waterjet-step-001.jpg
waterjet-step-001.jpg (1016.58 KiB) Viewed 1857 times
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jerryk25
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Location: Pittsburgh

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by jerryk25 »

Step 2 . .

Since your spring is a flat 2D profile cut out of a specific thickness..
I would generate a "dress pattern" simple cut-out pattern.

This drawing shows the aluminum velocity stack outline with
X-Y axis dimensions on the drawing.

In the lower left of the outline you will see X=0.0000 / Y=0.0000
this is the starting point for the water jet as "ground zero"
The operator will add stuff like "turn water on" to the code.
and "Index to next shape". . . ." return to battery" . . . . etc.

a shop can either use this file to "key in" the data to a computer hooked to the cutting machine.
or they can upload the CAD file ( same drawing, without text on it, in a Different format saved )
Attachments
waterjet-step-002vvv.jpg
waterjet-step-002vvv.jpg (120.61 KiB) Viewed 1857 times
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jerryk25
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Location: Pittsburgh

Re: "Samsend" Swinguards

Post by jerryk25 »

Here are actual shapes waterjet cut from aluminum to make a Tri=carb air cleaner

I made a paper model to make sure it fit under my 66 GTO hood.
Then had aluminum parts cut out . . . but they still needed to be drilled and tapped for thread.
Attachments
waterjet-step-004vvv.jpg
waterjet-step-004vvv.jpg (157.69 KiB) Viewed 1856 times
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