Coloring in Horn Scales

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NorthCarolinaDude
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Coloring in Horn Scales

Post by NorthCarolinaDude »

My primary reference is Italian stilettos as that's my area of interest.

But the question is this...how does horn age, in regards to color? I see many older stilettos with blue and yellow coloring in their scales but rarely see it on their more modern counterparts.

Does black and white horn age to a more yellow and blue hue over time? Or is it a conscious choice in that horn can be attained in any of those colorings and it's just up to the market, or maker, to utilize and produce?

I have long been seeking a modern, post-2000, stiletto with blue and yellow hues in the horn but thus far have had no real luck. Therefore I'm curious if it's an issue of age or trend. Any insight is appreciated. (And if you a modern dressed as such and think it needs a new home, PM me for sure!)

Peace. Scott.
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jerryk25
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Re: Coloring in Horn Scales

Post by jerryk25 »

Wow, long topic. . . .
This was discussed in length many years ago on SharperDeal . .

I have a friend who owns 84 Meat Packing in Pennsylvania. . .
I do meat label artwork for him.
I have seen many Bulls and Steers slaughtered,
"G" has a barn with 2 feet of salt on the floor, where he piles cowhide,
and he saws off horn and sells them. (uncleaned)

I never have seen anything good enough to suffer cutting and bending.
Often horn is wrecked because cows rub their horns on barbed wire fences,
and cut gouges in them.
I guess species and age have a great deal of effect.

Young bovines are called "greenhorn" for a reason.
the horn is actually greenish if not somewhat clear.
and very very thin. Scrape out the inside fiberous mass and they are not "thick".
I used to think certain green colors faded to clear on old 1950's scales.
But when the first 2005 re-issue commemorative picklocks came out,
many had that weird "clear" horn. . . brand new.

Think of the list of cow species you know,
"Guernsey" "Holstien" "Black Angus" "Hereford" "Beefmaster" "Texas Longhorn"
We have a "cowboy shop" at our local horse race track.
There are huge Longhorn Steer horns mounted, hanging on the walls for sale.
From one end to the other they change color. usually black on the tip.
I suppose this is true for all horn.
Horns are little, and grow long, the tip is a year older than the base, if not more.
The animal's diet could change.

"French Bovine tip" . . . .that multi-color stuff. . . .
I don't know if it was imported from France . .
or the cow breed originated in France
or if it is a "sales name" only, like "French Toast".

I have seen some horn get more powdery white as they dry out,
and get "richer creamier colored when re-conditioned.

Google image search "longhorn steer horns" for sale.
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jerryk25
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Re: Coloring in Horn Scales

Post by jerryk25 »

Same goes for Stag (not actually horn . . it's antler)
I used to think "Sambar stag" . . .that soapy feeling soft yellowy stag.
was what happened to old stag.
Until I got stag handled manual folders in collector sets
that had that hard white/grey staghorn.

different animals, different diets, different ages.
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NorthCarolinaDude
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Re: Coloring in Horn Scales

Post by NorthCarolinaDude »

Thanks for the shared knowledge!

We have a farmer or two in the family but they weren't able to be of much help, they raise Polled Herefords. Although they did recently have someone give them a Guernsey bull but its horns just looked washed out white to me on inspection.

Breed, diet and age all makes sense, especially diet. But then I wonder why so many vintage stilettos have horn that has those blue and yellow hues when compared to what I see available today. I also wonder if their diet and even medicinal routines could cause certain colorings to disappear forever as they're farmed differently with advancements.

And thus I also ponder, if there is a market for "aged" horn, or older horn that has color trends not much seen these days due to anything from different feed or modern antibiotics? Or is it typical to just use and reorder.

Or, is the blue-yellow hue I see really not as rare as it appears to my eyes, and therefore just a matter of waiting for a given supply (supplier) to be depleted?

Who'd have known so much thought could be had in something as simple as bovine horn!

Peace.
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Bill DeShivs
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Re: Coloring in Horn Scales

Post by Bill DeShivs »

What happens is the white on older horn "ages" to yellow from skin oils and dirt.
That yellow horn on old knives is white underneath.
The clearer horn can be colored from underneath with paint and dyes- though I have never seen this done on factory knives. Sometimes, the old knives' button side scales were painted black underneath in the cutouts for the button assembly.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
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Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
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NorthCarolinaDude
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Re: Coloring in Horn Scales

Post by NorthCarolinaDude »

I guess you can tell from my meanderings that I've been looking at a lot of the more "vintage" stilettos recently. Likely part of that progression in collecting that's been alluded to in the past...leaving the skulls and lightning bolts behind. :D

But regards the yellowing, that does make the most sense. I've seen it with bone and ivory too. I have an ivory cue-ball that my grandfather picked up in a pool hall in the 1920s or 1930s when a riotous fight broke out...he picked it up in case he needed a little weight in hand as he tried making his way out of the place, noticing it in his pocket when he got home. When I was a kid it was more white but now, 50 years later, it's appearing more of a deep yellow, almost mustard color, and you can see veins in the ivory as they appear more black.

I also think as my vision is drawn to these more yellowed whites that it makes the blacks appear more blue due to the contrast, or that's possibly fading of the black or a refraction in blue from the fading of the black...either that or I'm just going color-blind with age. ;)

Peace. Scott.
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