wandy

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 6:33 am

I am not sure about the "Mep Co Inc." My knowledge of H&R is very limited. H&R stands for "Harrington & Richardson", they were in business from 1871 to 1986.

Several incarnations that I can't keep track of, and I don't know if handguns are still made. Some of the guns were [are?] marked H&R-1875, others are marked New England Firearms [now owned by Marlin], still in the same factory. My .17 HMR is marked New Englansd Firearms and "Sportster". You got a good workable gun in an interesting round for a good price [my own is a 6" barrel and one of the first they made] these are not high priced collectable guns but honest working guns that serve the purpose. The hollow-points have been known to fail to expand on medium clothing and the Magsafes have sometimes expanded too fast and failed to penetrate enough on very heavey clothing. In cold weather I'd go with the lead semi-wadcutter and save expanding rounds for warm weather/lighter clothing.

666 · Post by **666** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 6:52 am

Federal Cartridge is the sole supplier of .32 Mag. factory loads. They offer two loads, a 95 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullet at a muzzle velocity of 1030 fps and ME of 225 ft. lbs. and an 85 grain JHP bullet at a MV of 1100 fps and ME of 230 ft. lbs. The latter is the preferred load for most purposes. At 100 yards it is traveling at 930 fps and carrying 165 ft. lbs. of kinetic energy. The mid-range trajectory of the 85 grain JHP bullet is 4.3 inches over 100 yards. I would never use a semi-wadcutter for personal protection. I would use a lead semi-wadcutter hollow point, such as the .38 +p..rated one of the best for snub-nose handguns. For the model 504, if the mag-safe is not used..I would go with the 85 gr. JHP. One more thing on Mag-safe...I have tested Mag-safe Agent loads on level ll A vests. This load will penatrate this vest. In testing other Mag-Safe loads, I have never experienced the problems you mentioned when fired into dummies wearing heavy clothing.

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:54 am

My experience is limited to the Federal loads. I've read of Magsafe failures but can't prove them. I have seen the hollow-point fail to expand on several layers of denim, thus my recommendation for the semi-wadcutter, on heavy clothing [it punches through and continues to penetrate making about a 7/8 caliber hole. The hollow points leave a less sharply cut hole [IF they are clogged by clothing]. More important is hitting the right place on the target [central nervous system] so expansion doesn't matter. I have my preferences on what I'd use [and when] but I have bigger preferences on WHERE I hit. If you hit the central nervous system expansion is not relavent, if you don't it becomes very important. I believe a 1911 was mentioned and it is a superior choice, in which case the .32 mag can be used for target shooting/small game hunting.

mrbigg · Post by **mrbigg** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 8:30 am

666 wrote:Federal Cartridge is the sole supplier of .32 Mag. factory loads. They offer two loads, a 95 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullet at a muzzle velocity of 1030 fps and ME of 225 ft. lbs. and an 85 grain JHP bullet at a MV of 1100 fps and ME of 230 ft. lbs. The latter is the preferred load for most purposes. At 100 yards it is traveling at 930 fps and carrying 165 ft. lbs. of kinetic energy. The mid-range trajectory of the 85 grain JHP bullet is 4.3 inches over 100 yards. I would never use a semi-wadcutter for personal protection. I would use a lead semi-wadcutter hollow point, such as the .38 +p..rated one of the best for snub-nose handguns. For the model 504, if the mag-safe is not used..I would go with the 85 gr. JHP. One more thing on Mag-safe...I have tested Mag-safe Agent loads on level ll A vests. This load will penatrate this vest. In testing other Mag-Safe loads, I have never experienced the problems you mentioned when fired into dummies wearing heavy clothing.

you know - i always thought those things were for "self defence"........
so will you decide within a split second before you defend your life which
bullets will inflict the most harm? what if you forgot your super MAG9000 STURNUMBUSTERS at home? what if you only have your WADCUTTER

missaman · Post by **missaman** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 12:20 pm

sorry mr. 666,
its mr. biggs latama that i'm abusing

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:18 pm

you know - i always thought those things were for "self defence"........
so will you decide within a split second before you defend your life which
bullets will inflict the most harm? what if you forgot your super MAG9000 STURNUMBUSTERS at home? what if you only have your WADCUTTER

If a wadcutter is what you have, it is what you use. Expets disagree [big time] on this topic. Some favor the "fast and light" theory others the "slow and heavy". Almost any hollowpoint can plug-up and turn into basically a full metal jacket, IF it goes through enough layers clothing. In this case the bigger and heavier the better. Against lightly clothed targets small and fast has it's merits. Anyone who thinks one thing is always right is not flexable. A bad choice that's shot well is better than a great choice that's shot poorly. A .32 magnum with a semi-wadcutter would be fine if that's what I had. A .32 magnum with a hollow-point would be fine if that's what I had. [But I'd prefer a .12 gauge]. Marksmanship beats technology every single time. Situational awareness can help avoid problems in the first place making the argument only an intelectual execise.

666 · Post by **666** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:54 pm

It's really simple. When I leave my home with my sidearm, it's loaded with the ammunition that I have practiced with, the load that I know will funtion in the firearm I am carrying, and the load that I know will stop the aggression the fastest. Full jacketed bullets and wad-cutters can over-penatrate, which can put inocent bystanders in danger. And because they over penatrate, the bullet will not dump it's energy in the body where it needs to. They will also not open up to a larger caliber which would make a bigger wound channel, which will produce more blood loss, which will end the agression faster. I am from the school of bigger bullet and as fast as I can get. That's why I carry .40 caliber 135 gr. Cor-Bons at 1300 FPS in warm weather, and .40 caliber 165 gr. Cor-Bons in cold weather. The faster bullets also produce a bigger shock-wave ripple that helps to incapacitate...but that's another page to write. To all the moderators, please accept my apologies for this topic being discussed here. I know it's not the right place for this discussion. It should have been writen in the "Off topics".

missaman · Post by **missaman** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:17 am

666 wrote:Naaa...The 9" Latama is resting nicely in the safe, while the 8" is on it's way to becoming re-born. When done, pics will be posted. And how can you be sure that your's was not touched?

Mr. Bigg:

Don't mind Missalman, he's quite mad....

sounds like he is suffering from latama envy sorry mr bigg. i'll send it soon
missaman. do you want the pig parts too

missaman · Post by **missaman** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:20 am

ahh the 8 inch broken wandy?? dont have a 13 incher?? it impressed mr. j mans avatar
missaman

666 · Post by **666** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:44 am

Mr. Missaman:

The 8" that's going for a make-over is a Latama...The Wandy I purchased is 13".

666 · Post by **666** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:52 am

Missaman:

What's this about having a Latama of Mr. Biggs??? Also..did I read you right? Are you going to put your Wandy on BA???

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:08 am

That's why I carry .40 caliber 135 gr. Cor-Bons at 1300 FPS in warm weather, and .40 caliber 165 gr. Cor-Bons in cold weather.

In warm weather a Star Firestar .40 with 135 gr. at closer to 1100. In cold weather a 180 gr. at about 900. The "car gun" is an Astra double action revolver in .45 Colt with Winchester 200 gr. Silver Tips winter, spring, summer and fall except in hunting season when I trade it for a Ruger Redhawk in .41 magnum [for those who argue they did too make one] and 210 jacketed soft points. For certain situations a 9mm Makarov with 95gr hollow points. Another Ruger [GP-100] .357 mag with 125 gr. would not make me feel poorlyarmed. My Old Model Blackhawk in .30 carbine shoots a very flat trajectory WAY out there, if someone was shooting a rifle at me from over 100 yards I'd prefer this to the others. I have my preferances but I'm not a "one trick pony", whatever I have with me will be fine in an emergency in fact I wouldn't feel helpless with my Grendl P-30 [.22 mag] with a 30 round magazine and a spare 30 rounder, it keeps going and going and going and going and etc.

666 · Post by **666** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:36 am

We seem to like the same things. I also carry a .45 Colt, mines from Taurus. It's all titanium and has a 2 1/2" barrel. I use Cor-Bons 200 gr (flying ashtray), at 1100 FPS and 537 FTLBS. When I carry it I also have an American Derringer 45Colt/410 in an ankle holster. 45 Colt on top and .410 on bottom. Now for .357, it's a must to use the 125 gr SJHP, but I go a step further. You should try Pro-Loads 125. Since I carry a S&W 649 (Bodyguard), 2 1/2" barrel...I want a bit more push due to the short barrel. Pro-Loads .357 is rated at 1500 FPS..That's 50 FPS more than all the rest. But like all .357's out of a short barrel, the muzzel blast and flash is wicked. I also use this load in my Ruger SP101. What's the 30 carbine like when shooting from a pistol???................I have a Colt Officers .45 that tends to dislike everything that's a hollow point. I just tried Cor-Bons PoweR'Ball ammo. This stuff is great. The .40 is also a keeper. It also is 1300 FPS. Go to their web-site and check it out.

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:00 am

The .30 carbine out of a pistol is intense. Recoil is mild but muzzle blast and flash are unreal. Muffs and plugs are a good idea. Muzzle flash will burn the hair off your forearms unless you roll your sleeves down. Another one that barks [and bites] is the .45-70 from a Contender, not for the timid. The American Derringer .45/.410 is a blast [literally] I love mine but I have an old Herters Derringer in .357 that kicks worse because it's smaller. I use the "Flying ashtray" in my Star PD .45ACP. My favorite "closet gun" [one you don't want to admit you carry due to small size] is an old Savage 10 shot .32 ACP [with Silvertips it actually out performs some .38 spl rounds]. Not bad for a pistol 80 years old.

Post by **jim d,** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:09 am

My favorite handgun continues to be the Ruger Mark 22, bull barrell, in stainless.

Jim