Interesting Article

[Phil Elmore]

You seem to have a problem grasping the concept here, Chris. We raise objections to the socialized medicine scheme, you claim (while citing yellow journalism) that these criticisms are unfounded, and then we provide you with proof in Obama's own words why these criticisms are, in fact, valid. You then refuse to see the validity in those criticisms -- which is why you are, in fact, both "dim" and "brainwashed."

[Chrisadamley]

You seem to have a problem grasping the concept here, Chris. We raise objections to the socialized medicine scheme, you claim (while citing yellow journalism) that these criticisms are unfounded, and then we provide you with proof in Obama's own words why these criticisms are, in fact, valid. You then refuse to see the validity in those criticisms -- which is why you are, in fact, both "dim" and "brainwashed."

What im saying is, that video where he talks about illegal immigrants proves nothing. He says that they will save there lives. Its not like they get all the same benefits with surgery and medicines and everything else. There life will be saved if its an emergency.

Should i start posting videos of what obama says to refute your point?....somehow i have a feeling that you will discredit whatever video i post of him...regardless that its him saying it.

[TRYKER]

maybe before the illegals are treated they should be councilled by the death panel or the dept. of deportation there choice


tryker

[Vagrant]

You seem to have a problem grasping the concept here, Chris. We raise objections to the socialized medicine scheme, you claim (while citing yellow journalism) that these criticisms are unfounded, and then we provide you with proof in Obama's own words why these criticisms are, in fact, valid. You then refuse to see the validity in those criticisms -- which is why you are, in fact, both "dim" and "brainwashed."

What im saying is, that video where he talks about illegal immigrants proves nothing. He says that they will save there lives. Its not like they get all the same benefits with surgery and medicines and everything else. There life will be saved if its an emergency.

If you REALLY believe that it will be limited to "life and death emergencies" and not expanded to include, "care needed for health and well-being" [at the same time those services are reduced/eliminated for seniors] you REALLY ARE both DIM AND BRAINWASHED
Also AIDS and Hepatitus will [instantly] be listed as "life and death emergency" even though both, take years [or decades] of [often useless] treatment
While these "emergencies" are being treated seniors will be told to "accept their condition[s]" [words of Comrade Daschel], I already posted a link to that

[Phil Elmore]

What im saying is, that video where he talks about illegal immigrants proves nothing. He says that they will save there lives. Its not like they get all the same benefits with surgery and medicines and everything else. There life will be saved if its an emergency.

What you're saying is that no amount of facts will change your brainwashed leftist opinion.

[xlr8]

If you REALLY believe that it will be limited to "life and death emergencies" and not expanded to include, "care needed for health and well-being" [at the same time those services are reduced/eliminated for seniors] you REALLY ARE both DIM AND BRAINWASHED

In my short time on this earth, I have learned not to believe the govt when they tell me "Oh, that'll neeeever happen. That's just crazy talk." How come I still pay income taxes??? I can see the day coming when we'll be told that "preventative care" is necessary to prevent "life or death" circumstances and will ultimately be cheaper. Yeah, right. People go to the doctor now for every stupid thing under the sun. All those little things add up quick. Give the sheeple out there something that's free and watch what happens. The money for the strokes, heart attacks and cancer will dry up waaay before the money for the sniffles and the common cold does. Think about it.

[Vagrant]

He [daschel] praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Elderly Hardest Hit

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).

This was part of the Economic Stimulis [already passed into LAW]
And SOME PEOPLE expect "healthcare" to be BETTER
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder ... -deal.html

[xlr8]

One more point, we have thousands of charitable organizations in the US that will pay for some extenuating circumstances already. I think the govt needs to re-think things here. People seem to give freely to some of these charities (Scottish Rite and Eggleston come to mind) on a regular basis. People will give, but they generally don't want their money TAKEN from them or wasted. Especially not wasted on people who should not be here in the first place. Now, if we can use this as a way of weeding out illegals, then sure, treat them and them put them on the bus with their peanut butter & jelly sandwich and we'll see ya' later. Never gonna happen though...

Vagrant mentioned people in Europe foregoing "experimental treatment". I don't care what side of the isle anyone is on, we all need to understand that advancements in medical science can almost ALWAYS be attributed to the current free market system we have now in the US. This country develops treatments and cures for diseases around the entire world, not just here. It is sad that some guy in over in the EU has to sit there and WISH that he could somehow get over here and speak to one of our doctors. If we level this playing field, in this particular arena, we run the risk of being stuck right where we're at technologically. How in the world could there ever be money left for advancement if we're already talking about having to off the senior citizens? I'm glad this whole thing has gotten people thinking.

[Chrisadamley]

You seem to have a problem grasping the concept here, Chris. We raise objections to the socialized medicine scheme, you claim (while citing yellow journalism) that these criticisms are unfounded, and then we provide you with proof in Obama's own words why these criticisms are, in fact, valid. You then refuse to see the validity in those criticisms -- which is why you are, in fact, both "dim" and "brainwashed."

What im saying is, that video where he talks about illegal immigrants proves nothing. He says that they will save there lives. Its not like they get all the same benefits with surgery and medicines and everything else. There life will be saved if its an emergency.

If you REALLY believe that it will be limited to "life and death emergencies" and not expanded to include, "care needed for health and well-being" [at the same time those services are reduced/eliminated for seniors] you REALLY ARE both DIM AND BRAINWASHED
Also AIDS and Hepatitus will [instantly] be listed as "life and death emergency" even though both, take years [or decades] of [often useless] treatment
While these "emergencies" are being treated seniors will be told to "accept their condition[s]" [words of Comrade Daschel], I already posted a link to that

well that may prove to be so, Vagrant. But thats not a good way to prove YOUR point. Im going off what he has said, not what you guys "believe" will actually happen.

[Chrisadamley]

What im saying is, that video where he talks about illegal immigrants proves nothing. He says that they will save there lives. Its not like they get all the same benefits with surgery and medicines and everything else. There life will be saved if its an emergency.

What you're saying is that no amount of facts will change your brainwashed leftist opinion.

Actually what im saying is that i'm Fine 'with Illegals being treated if its a life and death situation. Anything else they can be rejected for...but if they are dieing right there in the hospital then they should be saved.

[vernfonk]

Chris, what size do you wear?

http://www.astropitch.com/dkos/

[Vagrant]

What im saying is, that video where he talks about illegal immigrants proves nothing. He says that they will save there lives. Its not like they get all the same benefits with surgery and medicines and everything else. There life will be saved if its an emergency.

What you're saying is that no amount of facts will change your brainwashed leftist opinion.

Actually what im saying is that i'm Fine 'with Illegals being treated if its a life and death situation. Anything else they can be rejected for...but if they are dieing right there in the hospital then they should be saved.

That's what YOU say BUT, the [alreaady passed] economic stimulis already HAS cost seniors some benifits they paid for their whole lives
And the traitorcrats are only debating how MUCH of the savings WILL GO to illegals, while you [inanely] believe whatever o'sambo says
But you totaly ingnore what the rest of the party is actually doing
Or hope for the best

[tr4252]

Vagrant wrote;
".....What you FAIL to understand is - seniors, have already, paid ALL THERE LIVES, for senior health care, and will now watch BILLIONS being STOLEN to pay to save for these poor illegals......"

Leave it to him to reduce an issue down to essentials. The rest of the world must be laughing at us ugly Americans being conned by our own government.

I also agree with an observation made by xlr8; to paraphrase, that incentives for medical advancement will be lost in an environment of government controlled health care. The leadership of this country has long been blind to the fact that the less we were controlled by government, the more we we are able to operate toward the goal of personal enrichment, the more vital this country has been, in its short history.

Tom

[Viking45]

"O'Sambo"