cetme

[robert01]

the star 28 pk is the national police gun and of the municipal police in Spain.

[robert01]

Now with the crisis we are going through, these are the new guns we have. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vb-2nlYieEk/R ... 3%B1ol.bmp

[robert01]

they we had were these the mg http://i31.tinypic.com/67mb7t.jpg
Now we have the new machine guns are http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kdcsVoFMTKM/S ... 7x183g.jpg

[heviarti]

Anyone see that they're releasing a semi auto version of the Tavor? The IWI Tavor SAR?

[robert01]

http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&site= ... bkJyHroT8E

[robert01]

heviarti hope you like the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27O5iWKT ... sults_main

[Viking45]

Some time back I posted a pic of a soldier boarding a Somali Pirate ship with this little jewel- A belt fed H&K
Not sure what the model number is but it's all about business (I figure Arti will know)

If one is not enough then "double" your pleasure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUeZATSt4kI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-l_OyNwbis

[Krab-E]

That SAR-48 looks like what we call an SLR. (FN, Belgium) Originally issued as a selectable auto, they pulled up/left. I remember that it had a fair bit of recoil.
Belt-fed HK? -too cool!

[Viking45]

Mr. Krab you are correct sir. The SAR is in the "FN/FAL" category (kind of)
It's almost identical to the Israeli Heavy Barrel FAL
At first I didn't care for the handle then I lugged the thing around the range the first day then I grew to appreciate it

http://frontlinearmory.com/FAL/izzyhb/izzyhb.htm

[Krab-E]

I was lucky enough to go on a couple of range days back when I was a high school cadet. I didn't have to carry one far, but they must weigh almost double an M-16. I do remember thinking that they kicked hard for a gas-operated design.

[Viking45]

Not positive but I think my SAR-48 weighed close to 17 pounds. The bipod adds a couple pounds I'm sure plus a 20 round mag full of 308's.
I suppose a guy could mount two lawn mower wheels to the bipod and pull it like a toy wagon

I bought mine new in 89 or 90 for 800 and today I saw a used one selling for 3200.

I I do remember thinking that they kicked hard for a gas-operated design.

For one thing it has a "hinged" butt plate to rest on your shoulder in the prone position and the butt plate itself is steel so that doesn't help in the comfort department.
Mine didn't really kick too bad. I mostly used basic 150 grain FMJ,I had a good connection on ammo back then and bought a thousand rounds.
I kick myself every time I think about selling that rifle. I got 1250 for it but that's beside the point.

[heviarti]

I'd say it's unlikely anyone boarding a ship with one of those. There are less than 40 in existence. That's an F.J. Vollmer HK51-b. It's an HK21 belt feed fit into a shortened HK91 with a collapsible stock. That's the gun I wanted for boarding against somali pirates, along with a silenced .45. The 51-b is very rare. There are two with quick change barrels.

There are some videos of the 51-b on youtube. It is awesome. I think it's more likely you saw the 21 LMG. They are much more common. The FAL and variants are a fine rifle. DSA makes FAL stuff, and sells complete rifles. The FAL is my second choice after a Springfield type rifle, be it M1A or M14. From there I'm partial to the AR-10, then the G3. That roller lock is way too delicate. The MP5 needs fairly regular depot maintenance to maintain it's headspace. It's the same locking system.

HK also released some sporting rifles in the 80s that were pretty neat. HK-770 was .308, and the 940 was '06. Unfortunately they are getting to be rare and expensive.

Vike, I'm amazed you didn't weigh in on the Tavor. I'd really like to try one and see how it stacks up against the AR.

[Viking45]

Somewhere down here in Off Topic or Vagrant's area we were talking about Somali Pirates and I posted a pic of guy holding a belt fed number and it was probably you that identified it.

As for the Tavor I only know they are Israeli designed and are supposed to be bad-ass.
To me they look like the old Steyr AUG on steroids...BUT the new AUG A3 looks just like the Tavor.
They are kind of ugly little weapons but are supposed to out perform the AR in urban combat situations.

[heviarti]

I just figure Israel probably has more day to day use for a combat rifle than we do; their country would not exist but for their ability to keep the ragheads off themselves.

There's a second deal going on here... Israel can't receive military assistance in small arms from the US unless the weapons are produced here. The full auto IDF Tavor is produced at a cost of $1000. They sell the semi-auto with no reflex sight for $1999, with for $2600. Their factory is here in the US now. With our government paying an as yet unknown portion of the cost per rifle, plus doubling their money on the semi version.... I wonder if they'll give me a coupon for being ethnically Jewish?

[robert01]

I just figure Israel probably has more day to day use for a combat rifle than we do; their country would not exist but for their ability to keep the ragheads off themselves.

There's a second deal going on here... Israel can't receive military assistance in small arms from the US unless the weapons are produced here. The full auto IDF Tavor is produced at a cost of $1000. They sell the semi-auto with no reflex sight for $1999, with for $2600. Their factory is here in the US now. With our government paying an as yet unknown portion of the cost per rifle, plus doubling their money on the semi version.... I wonder if they'll give me a coupon for being ethnically Jewish?