Talwar sword
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Talwar sword
Recently i bought this old Indian Talwar sword, but it's not exactly my field of expertise.
If possible i would like to know the timeframe & region that the sword was made, and if the blade could possibly be wootz steel.
Thx in advance for any info you're willing to share,
Specs:
Overall length: 35.04 inch (89,0 cm)
Blade length up to pointy handle end: 27.95 inch (71,0 cm)
Blade thickness measured just before pointy handle end: 5.63 mm
Blade thickness measured just before front double edge section: 5.15 mm
Blade thickness at mid double edge section: 3.0 mm
Measured edge angle: +/- 30 degrees inclusive, convex
Handle looks to be plain carbon steel.
Weight: 1135 grams
If possible i would like to know the timeframe & region that the sword was made, and if the blade could possibly be wootz steel.
Thx in advance for any info you're willing to share,
Specs:
Overall length: 35.04 inch (89,0 cm)
Blade length up to pointy handle end: 27.95 inch (71,0 cm)
Blade thickness measured just before pointy handle end: 5.63 mm
Blade thickness measured just before front double edge section: 5.15 mm
Blade thickness at mid double edge section: 3.0 mm
Measured edge angle: +/- 30 degrees inclusive, convex
Handle looks to be plain carbon steel.
Weight: 1135 grams
Re: Talwar sword
Looks like an 18th century North Indian Kilij style of blade with a typical Talwar handle that has been with this blade for a long time.
To find out if it's wootz you will need to polish a small window somewhere on the blade and then etch the area.
Nital, ferric chloride, instant coffee paste, vinegar can be used; googling etching wootz will lead you to lots of information on the subject of etchants and procedures.
Judging from the rust and pitting pattern it may well be wootz.
Are there any marks or stampings at the base of the blade?
Nice sword; an old experienced warrior.
To find out if it's wootz you will need to polish a small window somewhere on the blade and then etch the area.
Nital, ferric chloride, instant coffee paste, vinegar can be used; googling etching wootz will lead you to lots of information on the subject of etchants and procedures.
Judging from the rust and pitting pattern it may well be wootz.
Are there any marks or stampings at the base of the blade?
Nice sword; an old experienced warrior.
Re: Talwar sword
No markings on either the blade or the handle, and i will experiment with some of the things you mention for etching later on.
Currently busy with resharpening the main edge with my worn-in 120 grit diamond file.
It feels like i'm grinding high carbide steel, and i definitely need to use some pressure to make the file cut & remove material, otherwise it just skids over the surface.
The remnants of the old main edge measured a slightly convex ~30 degrees inclusive, and the new main edge will be about the same.
The blade also used to have it's swedge sharpened in the past, so i will probably redo that as well later on.
Currently busy with resharpening the main edge with my worn-in 120 grit diamond file.
It feels like i'm grinding high carbide steel, and i definitely need to use some pressure to make the file cut & remove material, otherwise it just skids over the surface.
The remnants of the old main edge measured a slightly convex ~30 degrees inclusive, and the new main edge will be about the same.
The blade also used to have it's swedge sharpened in the past, so i will probably redo that as well later on.
Re: Talwar sword
Usually the yelman is not sharpened on these swords. If the file is skittering on the edge it must be nicely hardened. You might be able to apply a bit of hot vinegar to the fresh edge; it may show you a hint of pattern. It looks like it will be a good cutter once you get used to the hilt.
Re: Talwar sword
With the sword clamped to the table i use the diamond file with two hands.
Already ordered a 300 grit diamond file from the Bay to refine the bevels a bit later on.
If the new edge comes out good enough i will also clean up the blade surfaces and maybe try to obtain a new and somewhat bigger handle.
Already ordered a 300 grit diamond file from the Bay to refine the bevels a bit later on.
If the new edge comes out good enough i will also clean up the blade surfaces and maybe try to obtain a new and somewhat bigger handle.
Re: Talwar sword
Partial etching attempt with a bit of lemon juice, just to see if something would appear.
It seems it did, but so far it doesn't look like any of the wootz patterns i see online.
Click 2 x on the picture, then enlarge further.
It seems it did, but so far it doesn't look like any of the wootz patterns i see online.
Click 2 x on the picture, then enlarge further.
Last edited by kwackster on Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Talwar sword
Interesting; it doesn't look like piled construction or monosteel. I guess you'd find out for sure if you polish the entire blade.
I see talwar/tulwar handles listed on ebay; the problem is that Western hands tend to be a bit larger and the disc is there to force the wielder to use a draw cut; these are slashing swords, not stabbers or choppers.
Please post a picture if you decide to do an entire polish .
I see talwar/tulwar handles listed on ebay; the problem is that Western hands tend to be a bit larger and the disc is there to force the wielder to use a draw cut; these are slashing swords, not stabbers or choppers.
Please post a picture if you decide to do an entire polish .
Re: Talwar sword
Someone on another forum thought that it might be dendritic wootz; no specific patterns, but possibly comparable mechanical properties.
The handle on this talwar is indeed a bit too cramped for my medium sized hand and it's also a tiny bit loose, probably because the pitch/treesap mix has dried out or disintegrated.
Regarding the use of the talwar (and other Indian weapons) i have found this website to be very interesting: http://indianfight.com/
The handle on this talwar is indeed a bit too cramped for my medium sized hand and it's also a tiny bit loose, probably because the pitch/treesap mix has dried out or disintegrated.
Regarding the use of the talwar (and other Indian weapons) i have found this website to be very interesting: http://indianfight.com/
Re: Talwar sword
Indian swords are a fascinating subject; Elgood's Hindu Arms and Ritual is a great book on the subject.
I believe the only time you will find wootz in a specific pattern is when it has been mechanically manipulated, such as a rose or ladder pattern.
Here is a quite unusual Indian sword I collected some 10 years ago.
A Kirach:
I believe the only time you will find wootz in a specific pattern is when it has been mechanically manipulated, such as a rose or ladder pattern.
Here is a quite unusual Indian sword I collected some 10 years ago.
A Kirach:
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- kirach.jpg (204.88 KiB) Viewed 13089 times
Re: Talwar sword
whichever time does it belong to, its simply beautiful! with so much history hidden inside it!
Re: Talwar sword
I'd guess the blade is from the approximate era as the one kwackster started this thread with. The hilt may be somewhat older and once was entirely covered in silver which probably means that it once belonged to a high caste individual. The downward curved blade was popular with Sikhs I've been told. The point is of a thickened diamond cross section to penetrate mail or heavy quilted armor. This is quite a good thrusting sword from my experience cutting with it. The back edge is quite sharp right up to where the fuller stops. I've yet to figure out how to do an effective draw cut or slash.
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