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A ninja would be toast going up against a samauri in the open.
I think I stated that in my post when I said:
Their sword skills weren't as honed as the Samurai but they didn't rely strictly on thier swordsmanship. The Ninja knowing their inferior swordsmanship to the Samurai would often use covert attacks, or would use weapons that gave them a little more space then the Samurai sword they might be facing.
I still believe the Ninpo warrior has the advantage because of his ability to improvise
By the time of the Russo/Japanese war [1904] the Japanese KNEW what worked and beat the Russians easily using the most modern Guns, and Ships available They knew swords had no place in combat and had the best weapons [and tactics] they could obtain.
Just thought it would be interesting to hear what people think. Which had the better martial skills, who had the better smiths, the coolest looking swords, Who would win in a duel, a samurai or a knight? Anyone i've ever talked to has very interesting opinions on this subject, i want to hear more.
I am comparing the old times,not modern period.
1. Martials better skills had Japanese arts.
2. Smiths: Famous smiths were from India,Russia & Damask. So here a variety countries involved in all hiatory.
3. In Duel of Course samurai were the winners. Samurai cutting the opponent at seconds.
Pirat wrote:Just thought it would be interesting to hear what people think. Which had the better martial skills, who had the better smiths, the coolest looking swords, Who would win in a duel, a samurai or a knight? Anyone i've ever talked to has very interesting opinions on this subject, i want to hear more.
I am comparing the old times,not modern period.
1. Martials better skills had Japanese arts.
2. Smiths: Famous smiths were from India,Russia & Damask. So here a variety countries involved in all hiatory.
3. In Duel of Course samurai were the winners. Samurai cutting the opponent at seconds.
An uncanny resemblance to the first post in this thread.
"se me burlé, me fico un cento e vinti in tel stomego"
Goldoni: La donna di Garbo, 1753
Vagrant wrote:One of the earliest styles of European Fencing the Japanese witnessed was the Portuguese Sword and Dagger style. It seriously impressed them ! Some of what it now taught as "Traditional" Kendo is infulenced by it, although they gave up on the idea of a Blade in each hand.
Sounds a lot like the Spanish, the Filipinos and the development of escrima with sword and stick.
"se me burlé, me fico un cento e vinti in tel stomego"
Goldoni: La donna di Garbo, 1753
Various Euro Sword techniques influenced each other and traveled with them. The first Japanese/Euro contact was with the Portuguese, who had a style of fencing/fighting with a sword in one hand and a dagger in the other. the Japanese were impressed [and frightened of] this style. Most Euro/Japanese conflict was settled with a gun but at times a Westerner would pull his sword to give the Jap. "a fighting chance", considering the size/reach advantage Westerners had they almost always won these events
Pirat wrote:
I am comparing the old times,not modern period.
2. Smiths: Famous smiths were from India,Russia & Damask. So here a variety countries involved in all hiatory.
I doubt any Japanese Smith [or anyone else] could surpass Jean Jacgues Perret [French 18th century] " Perret was the man who said that a practical test of a cutler's skill was for him to draw out from bar stock a steel wire 6-1/2 inches long and 1/6 inch in diameter, and then to drill a 1/12 inch diameter hole through this wire with his breast drill -- the long way. "
This is TRULY amazing !! I can't do this with a lathe with any reliablity Read more about Perret at http://damascus.free.fr/f_damas/f_hist/perret.htm
Pirat wrote:1. Martials better skills had Japanese arts.
What materials?? Japan has NO [none/zero/zip/nadda] Iron deposits ! Europe and the Americas have lots. The U.S. has been taking ore from the Mesabi Range [Minnesota] for a couple centuries [and still does]. Every single piece of iron/steel in Japan was brought there from somewhere else [either as ore or scrap] Since the loss rate with ore is high the earliest items the Japanese made were usually made from several pieces of scrap forged togeather. When you do this the finished item is only as good as the WORST piece used to make it. Japanese Smiths had to make do with what they could get. U.S. Smiths almost always have [new] bar stock and a scrap pile bar stock is used for "important" jobs and scrap is used for "more normal" jobs. When using scrap a U.S. Smith will cut what he needs from a big piece a Japanese Smith would weld small pieces togeather. Take a guess which is more uniform The Western method is start with too much and get rid of [grind, forge, saw, etc] the excess. The Japanese method is start small and add more until it's just right. WHAT you add will have varying qualities so the final product will have variables. Your next Katana may be MY old Jeep
I don't think a sword was a real common fighting tool for either. Swords were for duals and excecutions. In both cases only the rich and noble were allowed to own them. More symbolic than useful, like an officers pistol. Real fighting was done (by poor soldiers) with arrows, spears, halberds, naginata etc. Anyone taking a sword to the battlefield full of archers and 8 foot spears would be done for real quick.
The "superiority" of the Japanese sword is the single best P.R. job ever perpetrated on a gullable public. The TOTAL Japanese iron deposits would fit easily in my backyard, [and probably in my hip pocket if I wanted to remove my Derringer ]. So ALL the raw materials came from somewhere else. The qualityof those materials and the Smiths talents determined the final product but there was no way to control the quality of the raw materials. Many of the so-called "superior" swords were made by welding small pieces of steel/iron togeather. This made folding and refolding necessary ending with a "damascus-like" final product but considering the various initial materials used the real quality would be suspect.
but at times a Westerner would pull his sword to give the Jap. "a fighting chance", considering the size/reach advantage Westerners had they almost always won these events 
Read more about Perret at http://damascus.free.fr/f_damas/f_hist/perret.htm
