9" Stag ID

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KrisNZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:49 am

9" Stag ID

Post by KrisNZ »

Can I please have anyone's thoughts on this lovely old Stag piece,
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Thanks and Respect for New Zealand,

Kris
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jim d,
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Location: Mayberry, N.C. / U.S.A.

Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by jim d, »

Nice old knife, from the photo it looks like a swivel bolster model. Is it a picklock or a swivel bolster? I can also see that the top bolster is lined, which is atypical for a swivel bolster, and a nice touch. Assuming the knife is indeed a swivel bolster, it takes extra steps to add the separate pieces of brass to the "guards" of the bolster. Most swivel bolster models are unlined in the guard areas.

The M. Italy in the oval tang stamp is known and desirable, I would say.

Jim
KrisNZ
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Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by KrisNZ »

Thanks Jim
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john
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Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by john »

It looks like a real transitional knife. These were made in the 60s. It looks like it meets the criteria: nickel silver bolsters, button and safety placement, lined guards, swedged blade, swivel release bolster, modern one piece spring and my only question is the rocker arm bracketed or “D” stamped.
Very cool knife!
Your friend on the web's most friendly community on knives and blades,
John

Massachusetts Where Everything is Illegal or Taxed
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jerryk25
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Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by jerryk25 »

to Jim D . . . The swivel bolster is not a new die stamped bolster with a curve.

This swivel bolster looks like it is a regular bolster,
soldered to a 2nd small dedicated backing Liner Plate.
ground to shape by the knife manufacturer.
So I would speculate it is an earlier Transitional. If there IS such a thing. . .

Also . . Your lock tab is not undercut for fingernail access. . .
Look at the round underside of the locktabs A and B on the first image red background
These springs are for a picklock.
Springs C,D,E, and F. are for tilt-bolsters, the tabs are not undercut.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
other clues to how many older parts were used.
(It is a subject of contention when a Transitional ceases to be a Transitional)
But you could infer from the parts makeup. . . if a knife is older.
But it would be anecdotal rationalization. . .not actual fact.

look the bottom of the blade well. .
Is it a two piece spring or a modern one piece spring.
See white arrow pointing at material abutment line.
If two piece, is it a dovetail spring or a slip in spring.
in the illustration A and B are 2 piece Dovetail Springs
C and D are Slip in Springs
E is a rare pinned spring
F is a modern one piece spring.

see bottom 2 photos of D-Stamped Brackets and then pinned brackets.
look inside the blade well. . . . behind the spring.
look at how the button is affixed under the liner,
Is it a "D" stamped liner, or do you see rivet heads sanded flat (not the scale pins)
it most likely is NOT a tabbed bracket.
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KrisNZ
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Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by KrisNZ »

Thanks Jerry, very interesting.
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jerryk25
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Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by jerryk25 »

more explanation
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button_man
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Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by button_man »

.

jerry ~ Great tutorial on the evolution of springs! That alone is worth the price of admission!
Is it possible to assign a time range (e.g., "circa 1957 to circa 1970" ) to each spring type?

Remember the 13" stag Transitional from my "Six knives from the back woods" thread?

viewtopic.php?t=30349&p=314114#p314114

This knife has nickel bolsters; a swivel bolster with a (very thin) dedicated brass backing;
and an unknown deployment button mechanism -- I tried using a thin mechanic's hook to
first pull up and then push down the spring so I could get a peek, but it's very sturdy and
would barely budge a hair's width. Also tried peering behind the spring with a flashlight,
but there just isn't enough clearance to see anything.

The distance from button to front bolster is ~ 4.5 cm and from button to rear bolster
is ~ 8.25 cm; so the button is placed pretty well forward.

The surprising feature (to me, anyhow) is the spring. After looking at your chart here,
I examined the knife and the spring is undoubtedly the modern one-piece style.

I realize that, by definition, a Transitional incorporates a mixture of older features
and newer features. Still, it seemed odd that the knife doesn't have a slip-in spring.
Any guidelines on dating the spring styles would be most appreciated -- !!
.
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jerryk25
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Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by jerryk25 »

That's just it. . .I can't give a specific date. . . .
I doubt the Italian Cutler that built it could tell you.

Think of a Pizza shop, Hey Joe. . Do you remember what month we started using that other brand of sauce. .

It ain't gonna happen.

I can give a general "A-B-C-D-E-F-G" types of springs. . because I have examples.
I can show types of buttons "1-2-3-4-5-6-7" . . because I have examples.
I can say "I remember in 1966 when mail order manual stilettos stopped being Nickel bolsters."

But in Pittsburgh, we were 10 years behind in fashion, We were still wearing Bell Bottom jeans in 1980.
A Spring type F on a Button type 4 could have been produced in year 19xx and I finally saw one 14 years after the fact.

Alll I can do is compare two knives and Guess which one seems older.
Sesame Street . . "One of these objects is not like the other, One of these things just doesn't belong."
KrisNZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:49 am

Re: 9" Stag ID

Post by KrisNZ »

Thank you so very much for your help Jerry, I know one hell of a lot motr now than when I first posted here. 👍👍
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