Oddball OTF ring-pull
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Oddball OTF ring-pull
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I bought a group lot of OTFs at the flea today, basically just to get this one for myself; the others are conveniently located just around the corner
in the "Buy & Sell" section. Most of those are in their original boxes; alas, this one is not.
OAL is about 10" but it seems bigger -- it's pretty hefty and solid. On one edge of the handle is a long metal strip; press down on the forward end and the blade flies open. To close, flip the knife around to the other edge of the handle; press the little metal tab to one side, just like a liner lock, and pull the cord to retract the blade. The pull bar (shown partially exposed) is plastic, but the rest of the construction is metal. The handles appear to be aluminum.
All sides and edges of the blade are hollow-ground; though not very sharp.
This is the first time I've run into this particular knife. No markings except "154-CM" on the blade. Some of the other OTFs that the seller had were marked 'Taiwan' and some of the boxes were marked 'Taiwan' as well. It is not unreasonable to postulate that this knife may have been made there also; of course, at this point nothing is certain. The seller stated that all the knives came from one guy, and that they are all NOS from the 1980s and 1990s.
Just wondering who might have encountered something like this bizarre knife before.....? I had to have it just for the open / close mechanism, which I have never seen. I mean, I've seen single-action OTFs with a ring pull to close.... but not with this liner-lock type release tab. The whole thing is just strange.
UPDATE: I just did a quick check into the steel type, and found the following information.
Does this mean that the knife might be of American manufacture, and not from Taiwan?
I don't know. ( source: https://knifeup.com/154cm-steel/ ) >>>>>
154CM steel is one of “better” steel varieties made for cutlery and other knife blades. It’s ...a commonly used steel for a higher grade knife.
It has an exceptionally good balance between three enviable attributes which are toughness, hardness, and corrosion resistance. Originally, 154CM
was a proprietary, American-made, high-alloy, space-age, high-carbon stainless steel that was first used for knives way back in the 1970s.
It was popular for a time because it was a good-quality steel derived from a vacuum-melted process (using electric currents to create heat to melt metal within a vacuum) but after a few years, the manufacturer at the time stopped using the vacuum-melting process so the quality started to decline.
As a result, many knife-makers switched their allegiances to a Japanese equivalent steel called ATS-34, made by the Hitachi Corporation.
Since then, the quality has been restored by Crucible Industries (the U.S. manufacturer) and it is regaining in popularity.
154CM is really an upgraded version of 440C steel. The upgrade is a result of adding Molybdenum to the mix. Here is the composition:
•Carbon: 1.05%
•Chromium: 14.00%
•Manganese: 0.50%
•Molybdenum: 4.00%
•Silicon: 0.30%
Because of its Rockwell Hardness (HRC) of around 58-61, it’s a harder (and ultimately superior) steel to most modern stainless varieties and
holds its sharpness longer than most stainless steels with an HRC in the mid-upper 50’s. It has excellent toughness when it’s double-tempered,
and it has a pretty decent resistance to corrosion. In spite of these upgrades, it’s less expensive than the well-known S30V steel.
A popular use for 154CM is in survival knives that are often exposed to harsh elements like salt water for extended periods.
It’s also a very common steel used for cutlery, ball bearings, valve ports and metallic bushings.
Many well-known survival and EDC knife makers use the steel liberally.
.
I bought a group lot of OTFs at the flea today, basically just to get this one for myself; the others are conveniently located just around the corner
in the "Buy & Sell" section. Most of those are in their original boxes; alas, this one is not.
OAL is about 10" but it seems bigger -- it's pretty hefty and solid. On one edge of the handle is a long metal strip; press down on the forward end and the blade flies open. To close, flip the knife around to the other edge of the handle; press the little metal tab to one side, just like a liner lock, and pull the cord to retract the blade. The pull bar (shown partially exposed) is plastic, but the rest of the construction is metal. The handles appear to be aluminum.
All sides and edges of the blade are hollow-ground; though not very sharp.
This is the first time I've run into this particular knife. No markings except "154-CM" on the blade. Some of the other OTFs that the seller had were marked 'Taiwan' and some of the boxes were marked 'Taiwan' as well. It is not unreasonable to postulate that this knife may have been made there also; of course, at this point nothing is certain. The seller stated that all the knives came from one guy, and that they are all NOS from the 1980s and 1990s.
Just wondering who might have encountered something like this bizarre knife before.....? I had to have it just for the open / close mechanism, which I have never seen. I mean, I've seen single-action OTFs with a ring pull to close.... but not with this liner-lock type release tab. The whole thing is just strange.
UPDATE: I just did a quick check into the steel type, and found the following information.
Does this mean that the knife might be of American manufacture, and not from Taiwan?
I don't know. ( source: https://knifeup.com/154cm-steel/ ) >>>>>
154CM steel is one of “better” steel varieties made for cutlery and other knife blades. It’s ...a commonly used steel for a higher grade knife.
It has an exceptionally good balance between three enviable attributes which are toughness, hardness, and corrosion resistance. Originally, 154CM
was a proprietary, American-made, high-alloy, space-age, high-carbon stainless steel that was first used for knives way back in the 1970s.
It was popular for a time because it was a good-quality steel derived from a vacuum-melted process (using electric currents to create heat to melt metal within a vacuum) but after a few years, the manufacturer at the time stopped using the vacuum-melting process so the quality started to decline.
As a result, many knife-makers switched their allegiances to a Japanese equivalent steel called ATS-34, made by the Hitachi Corporation.
Since then, the quality has been restored by Crucible Industries (the U.S. manufacturer) and it is regaining in popularity.
154CM is really an upgraded version of 440C steel. The upgrade is a result of adding Molybdenum to the mix. Here is the composition:
•Carbon: 1.05%
•Chromium: 14.00%
•Manganese: 0.50%
•Molybdenum: 4.00%
•Silicon: 0.30%
Because of its Rockwell Hardness (HRC) of around 58-61, it’s a harder (and ultimately superior) steel to most modern stainless varieties and
holds its sharpness longer than most stainless steels with an HRC in the mid-upper 50’s. It has excellent toughness when it’s double-tempered,
and it has a pretty decent resistance to corrosion. In spite of these upgrades, it’s less expensive than the well-known S30V steel.
A popular use for 154CM is in survival knives that are often exposed to harsh elements like salt water for extended periods.
It’s also a very common steel used for cutlery, ball bearings, valve ports and metallic bushings.
Many well-known survival and EDC knife makers use the steel liberally.
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- Attachments
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- RPSA__840c.jpg (457.38 KiB) Viewed 1757 times
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- RPSA_LeverO__842c.jpg (273.28 KiB) Viewed 1757 times
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- RPSA_Lock__845c.jpg (111.4 KiB) Viewed 1757 times
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- RPSA_pull__847c.jpg (595.04 KiB) Viewed 1757 times
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- RPSA_154CM__841c.jpg (88.35 KiB) Viewed 1757 times
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
Looks like a Dalton ASP copy?
154CM stamp is no guarantee of anything.
154CM stamp is no guarantee of anything.
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
Interesting knife.
I like seeing "oddball" switchblades .
I like seeing "oddball" switchblades .
Avatar- Ti-Lite Auto Conversion. Video- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79nia-_DzU
My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
Stiletto switchblade parts for sale- blades, bolsters, sears, rockers/buttons
My youtube knife channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjSYCK ... 3s5HNcsL5A
Stiletto switchblade parts for sale- blades, bolsters, sears, rockers/buttons
- Bill DeShivs
- Yes.
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- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 2:50 pm
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Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
Chinese Dalton copy.
154 CM stamp is a guarantee the steel is actually 420.
154 CM stamp is a guarantee the steel is actually 420.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
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Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
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Thanks guys! I figured that somebody here must have seen this thing before!
It's disappointing to hear that it's from China; but I don't have much money
into it, so it's not devastating news. Where can I find more info on Dalton?
UPDATE: Just got this link from a friend. Big dough for the real thing!
https://www.americanedgeknives.com/dalt ... -otf-auto/
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Thanks guys! I figured that somebody here must have seen this thing before!
It's disappointing to hear that it's from China; but I don't have much money
into it, so it's not devastating news. Where can I find more info on Dalton?
UPDATE: Just got this link from a friend. Big dough for the real thing!
https://www.americanedgeknives.com/dalt ... -otf-auto/
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Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
There were sold by BladePlay for $12 each in both black and silver handless. It was a copy of the Border Patrol model
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- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
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Twelve dollars? You can't even buy a China auto that will break in 3 weeks for twelve dollars. How long ago was this....?
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Twelve dollars? You can't even buy a China auto that will break in 3 weeks for twelve dollars. How long ago was this....?
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- whippersnapper
- Posts: 8397
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- Location: Michigan
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
Rob Dalton stopped making knives around 2010 as far as I remember. Wish the heck I would have bought more years ago. He produced dozens of different designs all in limited quantities. Some I just hated but many of them were cool as hell. They seem to be pretty valuable and he used to have a pretty big following. Probably still does but I'm not very involved in the hobby and forums anymore.
Seems like he got in some trouble for having some racist markings on some of his designs or something. There was also a post years ago from some guy claiming he did most of the design work and machining on the knives and got screwed over by Dalton. I have no idea if any of it is true.
There used to be a web sight with pics and info of most of them but I can't seem to find it anymore.
Seems like he got in some trouble for having some racist markings on some of his designs or something. There was also a post years ago from some guy claiming he did most of the design work and machining on the knives and got screwed over by Dalton. I have no idea if any of it is true.
There used to be a web sight with pics and info of most of them but I can't seem to find it anymore.
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- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
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whip ~ Thanks for the background info..... if you run across that web site, or anything similar, please let me know!
Tom ~ The EdgeCo OTFs made in Taiwan and Korea back in the 1980s used to list for $20 to $30 in their catalogs;
and this was almost 40 years ago. I know, because I used to get the catalogs and may still have a couple (someplace).
I don't think that anybody could have turned a profit with a twelve-dollar retail price. Not even the Chinese, using
slave labor. If you have a screenshot or any sort of actual documentation please post it. Thanks!
.
whip ~ Thanks for the background info..... if you run across that web site, or anything similar, please let me know!
Tom ~ The EdgeCo OTFs made in Taiwan and Korea back in the 1980s used to list for $20 to $30 in their catalogs;
and this was almost 40 years ago. I know, because I used to get the catalogs and may still have a couple (someplace).
I don't think that anybody could have turned a profit with a twelve-dollar retail price. Not even the Chinese, using
slave labor. If you have a screenshot or any sort of actual documentation please post it. Thanks!
.
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
BladePlay sold these for $20 BUT they used to have a wholesale section back in those days and you could buy a dozen for $144 which is $12 each. My friend got six in silver and six in black for $144. He bought 12 of the Tomb Raiders in from the same section for $10 each by the dozen.
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
These are some of the $10 Tomb Raiders. I think he still has six of the ones we are talking about....You will just have to believe me.
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Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
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Well, first you said that the Dalton copy (with black or silver handles) was sold for $12 (but you didn't say when); and now
you've posted a photo of knives with black or silver handles..... but these are the Tomb Raider copies, not the Daltons; and
the story has been expanded to say that price was only wholesale, and once again, you didn't say when this price was in effect.
Your statements keep shifting and gaining qualifiers, and it's hard to keep track of exactly what you ARE saying.
If you're now saying that the Tomb Raider copies sold for $10 each in wholesale lots of a dozen in the 1980s, it's certainly possible.
Considering the drop in purchasing power of the dollar since the 1980s, ten bucks back then is probably about the same as
$25 to $30 now -- and I'm sure that Asian companies could wholesale a knife like this for $25 to $30 now and make money.
I'm not just being nit-picky here..... your statement "My friend ....bought 12 of the Tomb Raiders ....for $10 each by the dozen"
sort of makes it sound like I'm asking $45 for knives that could be had for ten bucks. It implies that this company might have been
offering that price at ANY time; perhaps recently! Maybe last week! Nonsense.
I'm sure that YOU would not appreciate somebody else commenting on your merchandise with poorly defined remarks.
Please show the same courtesy toward other folks.
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Well, first you said that the Dalton copy (with black or silver handles) was sold for $12 (but you didn't say when); and now
you've posted a photo of knives with black or silver handles..... but these are the Tomb Raider copies, not the Daltons; and
the story has been expanded to say that price was only wholesale, and once again, you didn't say when this price was in effect.
Your statements keep shifting and gaining qualifiers, and it's hard to keep track of exactly what you ARE saying.
If you're now saying that the Tomb Raider copies sold for $10 each in wholesale lots of a dozen in the 1980s, it's certainly possible.
Considering the drop in purchasing power of the dollar since the 1980s, ten bucks back then is probably about the same as
$25 to $30 now -- and I'm sure that Asian companies could wholesale a knife like this for $25 to $30 now and make money.
I'm not just being nit-picky here..... your statement "My friend ....bought 12 of the Tomb Raiders ....for $10 each by the dozen"
sort of makes it sound like I'm asking $45 for knives that could be had for ten bucks. It implies that this company might have been
offering that price at ANY time; perhaps recently! Maybe last week! Nonsense.
I'm sure that YOU would not appreciate somebody else commenting on your merchandise with poorly defined remarks.
Please show the same courtesy toward other folks.
.
Last edited by button_man on Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
The tomb raiders were in the 2000+ area in timing. The Border patrol copy sold for $20 OR $12 wholesale by the dozen. I tried to be nice and explain what I know. I am done. Have a nice day. You're price is fair these days. That was not my point.....
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Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
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Tom ~ It's nice that you finally get around to stating that the prices you mention are at least 20 years old.
Thank you for that elucidation. Late, but appreciated. You have yourself a wonderful day as well.
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Tom ~ It's nice that you finally get around to stating that the prices you mention are at least 20 years old.
Thank you for that elucidation. Late, but appreciated. You have yourself a wonderful day as well.
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- Bill DeShivs
- Yes.
- Posts: 7358
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 2:50 pm
- Location: In de lan o' cotton
- Contact:
Re: Oddball OTF ring-pull
There was nothing amiss with Tom's statements.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.