The first trickle from the hoard !!

[button_man]

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A month ago, an antiques dealer that I know told me that he had access to a hoard of about 60 switchblades, and that he would get together with me in a couple of weeks. After not hearing from him for a month, I got a call yesterday. I was disappointed to hear that the bulk of the knives are still packed away in storage and haven't yet been unearthed.... but that he was able to get his hands on four of them. (He does not actually own the others at this point; he is waiting for HIS source to dig them out of storage.)

Still, I met him with great anticipation. There was one decent Italian knife, pictured here. The other three knives are shoddy 8" junk from China -- ALL with blade peek, one with a sharpened blade, etc. Just garbage. I didn't say that to him, though; I pointed out some of the drawbacks and we settled on $125 for the 11" and $100 for the three junkers. I hated to throw away a hundred bucks on utter garbage, but felt that I had no choice. Had I only bought the good knife, he might have gone away saying to himself "Geez, he only bought one knife out of four.... maybe I better show the rest of the stuff to somebody else once I get my hands on all of them."

I didn't dare take that chance, so I winced and paid up. He's not sure how many Italian pieces are in the other 50+ knives, but even if it's only three or four and the rest are junk, that $100 could turn out to be a smart insurance policy to make sure that I get first crack at them. As it stands right now, I'm out $225 for this 1960s-70s swivel-bolster with swedge blade. The blade stock is a solid 1/8" thick, so it's a good beefy knife. It has a small bit of banana but certainly not awful by any means. Strong spring, good lockup, no wobble, working safety, decent horn.... honestly, it's not a bad knife at all and although
I wish it had a name on it instead of just "Rostfrei" I don't think I got skinned even if it all ends here and I simply end up with this one piece for 225.
It's not a steal, but it's not a horrible deal either. Hopefully more good pieces will surface and everything will cost-average out to a level that makes
me happy. I will post updates as they occur.....

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[jerryk25]

NICE . . . a transitional . . .old style button in center of scale. . .on a very straight clean blade.
Separate kickspring ( slip-in ? ) . . .
That alone might bring $300 if you got the right buyer.
I don't think it's 70's . . . I think it may be pre-1965.

I once bought $400 worth of junk G.I.Joe box of unsorted worthless clothes and boots . .
Just to get a white winter knapsack / backpack and undamaged ski and pole set.
I was having a nervous breakdown back in the 1990's . . . new machine shop, 12 employees. . . etc.

Don't feel bad about paying for Chinese junk. . .
think of it like chumming the water for shark. . . .
The big one is lurking out there
and you have to tease it to the surface.

[Panzerfaust]

You did well. That is an older swivel bolster with the rocker button assembly and is easily worth more than the $225 total you spent.

[jim d,]

I agree with Panz, and even if only a fraction of the knives from the hoard are decent, you will have done well.

Jim

[button_man]

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Thanks guys...... I was feeling kinda glum yesterday about having my back to the wall with the junk knives, and now I feel better about the deal.
The spring may indeed be a slip-in; you can see that it definitely fits in under the butt section of the backspring that curves down between the bolsters.

I don't know much at all about deployment systems: how many different ones there are, or how to tell them apart.
How would I determine whether this is a rocker assembly as opposed to something else...? Thanks again...!

P.S. -- Since this knife is clearly Italian but marked in German; AND because it was made when export to the USA had been banned,
is it safe to conclude that this knife was specifically made for export to Germany? (back before blade length restrictions?)
If so, then I'm thinking that it may have been brought back by a U.S. serviceman stationed in Germany at the time.....
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[jerryk25]

How to tell the button type.
Because it is a tilt bolster, with the button in the center of the scale.
It is still the old style button arm that looks like a SEE-SAW, child's playground swing.
Because it is a tilt, with a slip in, it is most likely not tabbed or pinned bracketsm (older knives)
and it is a "D-Stamp rocker bracket." which you should be able to see inside the blade well.
You may need to press the spring down briefly with a wooden stick. . . . you will see the big holes.

Notice in the image below, on a 9inch frame,
the button is either centered on the scale, or closer to the bolster.
The upper frame depicts a modern button where the spring has a single pin.
On modern knives in all sizes , the buttons are nearer to the top bolster (than they used to be.)

and below it is an older (but not oldest) button with D-Stamped Liners.
Prior to D-stamped liner, brackets were either pinned in place or had tabs that fit into slots.

[jerryk25]

another detail in determining the age of a transitional era knife . . . is the tilt bolster.

older tilt bolsters, especially the 13 inch knives.
the tilt bolster had it's own little dedicated liner soldered to it, and the top liner was without "Ears".
there was still a full liner on the back side, where the brass Covered the underside of the bolster "Ears".

Later tilt bolsters, simply stopped having the dedicated liner on the tilt, but the back liner still was a full liner.
Your knife does not have the tilt bolster dedicated liner. . . so I suspect it is not the very early transitional style.
( there is no absolute rule. . . small shops often cobbled together left-over parts to fill out a batch on order.)

Finally most liners simply stopped covering the bolster ears, and you could see cavities on the underside,
of both the front button side top bolster and reverse side top bolster

[button_man]

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Jerry, thanks a million for the great tutorial...! When does your book come out?! (No joke.... you should write one!)

I am somewhat familiar with the see-saw type assembly; but I haven't seen the newer type before. If I understand the photos correctly,
the new style (is there a name for it?) consists of a steel arm which is pinned to the liner at the back, and which has the sear pin at the front.
The button is at one end of another arm which passes through the first arm, and terminates in a collar that fits around the sear pin.
When the button is pressed, this second arm levers up the sear pin and releases the blade. Is that more or less correct....?

What about this "Rostfrei" business? I know that now, the word can be found on knives made anywhere, that are shipped everywhere.
But what about in the 1950s and 1960s? At that time, would it have been used on a totally practical basis, for knives that would be
sold in German-speaking areas.... not only Germany; but also Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, etc.....?
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[jerryk25]

depending on the language . . . "stainless" is also called. . .

in Spanish . . Inoxidable . . shortened to Inox . . . Inoxia. . . Inoxid. . .
in Albanian. . Inox
in Italian . . .inossidabile

in German . . stainless is Rostfrei . . .
in Danish . . . Rustfrit

How it became standardized for other languages , I wouldn't know.
I don't think material was required with the whole "american import stamp requirements"
but I don't know. . . I can only repeat what I heard for wiser people than me.
. . .And I am often corrected. . . .

I wouldn't trust Asian stampings . . . .440 Stainless on blades was already once proved to be false.
Much like "Leverletto" was found on Non-Lever knives. . .

Back in the 1980's there was a big disaster, America Importing bolts.
Bolt Grades as stamped on the Hex Head of a bolt. . . .
And if you are rigging steel cable on a crane lift, there are serious rules.
How and when you can use a certain bolt. . .
A lot of times you are not allowed to mix-n-match home combined rigging.
Even on a small lift, just off a flatbed semi.

A bolt head snapped off a crane lift, and it "zippered" thru other bolts
The bad bolt shearing off, the next bolt unable to survive the stress, it snapped, like dominos.
Guys out west were building a radio tower, and several were illegally riding the part up,
instead of climbing, the cable was okay, the fasteners failed, the tower section took out
lower guy wires, the tower fell, more than half a dozen were killed. . .

[jerryk25]

The newer type button. . .doesn't have a name. . .

I got reprimanded once for calling cross guards "Ears".
If I called out the new button as a "Soup Ladle" . . .
I would invoke evil retribution from Angels and Demons both.

What we have now, reminds me of a "Soup Ladle" . .
The button is a lever or "crow-bar" . . .a bowl with a hole in the handle end.
The spring is Die stamped, bent once, hardened, and mounted with 1 pin.
Only requiring 2 holes in the liner. . . Sear hole and Pin mounting hole.
This is actually a variation of the old Schrade button.

There is a 3D model of a newer type button. . .
but I have yet to see it on a real knife . .
(not that I am taking apart knives as often as I used to.)

Look Close at the button in this illustration. . .
There is only 1 part. . . but still 2 holes.
The button is a one piece "W" . . . with the button on the center leg of the "W"
If you push the middle of the "W" down, the outboard legs raise up.
one end has a single pin to the liner, the other end is bent to be the sear pin.
On the liner is an odd bushing, right under the button.
I don't know for sure, but I think it stops the button from traveling too far.
So that the sear pin end does not totally lift out of the liner hole. and move crooked.

[jerryk25]

The modern Tilt Bolster Button/Sear device
is actually a throwback to the 1920's Schrade patent.
Seen on Shure-Snaps. . . it is also on Paratrooper Knives.

I have simplified the mechanics into a cartoon.
The schrade spring is actually longer, and the slot is wide for a safety track.
The schrade sear arm has a notch in the bottom, which rests on a bar of metal
left in the liner between two adjacent slots in the liner.

the asia device is shown like a solid metal bar ,
but my example on a utility knife
is actually a folded metal triangle, without a button,
there is just a thumb tab in place of a button.
It was bent to give it a fulcrum point at the bottom.
But I thought drawing it would confuse the readers.

Lastly. . . the modern "spoon sear arm" is bent, but shown in a "pry up" position.
The bend in the "Spoon" actually rests down on the liner, and is the fulcrum point.
The big change is that the sear point is no longer on the button arm.
The sear is now on the spring itself.
So if you close the knife with the safety on, under the button. . .and you do not press the button. . .
the spring and sear point are still free to move, to jump up when the blade heel sets into the blade well.
( it is still ALWAYS advisable to press in any button or lever when closing a switchblade. )

[Jackalope]

Best of luck with the rest.

[button_man]

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jerry, thanks for all the great additional info -- !! BTW, it's hard to see in my initial photos, but the swivel bolster IS fully lined with brass, including the guard (which I often call "ears" also). The brass is thinner than on the other side of the blade channel, so it didn't really show up. Here is a closer look at it. Does this help narrow down the age? --maybe before 1960, or something along those lines....?

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[jerryk25]

Yup, that's the classic early transitional. . .
Slip in spring, lined tilt bolster, old style button. . . . I can't tell if it's nickel or stainless.
It seems too bright to be nickel. . .nickel would show grey tarnish. . .But I could be wrong. . my eyes are old.

On the other forum. . there were discussions about Brass pivot pins vs steel pivots. . .
but to be honest. . .when details get that intense, I tend to write it down like the draftsman I'm trained to be.. .
and then I forget the detail. . . I got it recorded. . why memorize it. . .there are too many exceptions to memorize.
It's probably on a CD somewhere. . . I'm too lazy to go look for it.

I don't think, that even the guy that actually built it, would remember what year it happened.
Do you remember all the oil changes on your first car ?
It's just a sensible theory of reasoning that as designs progress,
That. . they are looking for less work to do, for the same cost of production, for larger profit margin.

So, Nickel Tilt bolsters with liners existed on the Latama Square Button, in the 50's
and by the 1970's, there were stainless bolsters that were not even soldered to the liners anymore.

9 inch and 11 inch knives share the same size bolsters , ,stands to reason those nickel bolsters got used up first.
So the following year, when an advanced production standard was established,
You probably still had 13 inch stilettos being made with older parts.

It's not like you are ever going to narrow it down like a year 1965 1/2 Ford Mustang. VIN serial numbered off a production line.

Likewise. . different model switchblades like the Fish body still used the old style button, even after the spoon/ladle button existed.

Since all my knives were bought 20 years after they were made, I have no idea of exact production year.
It wasn't until 1984 or so with my first "Edge Kit" did I get a "brand new knife". . .
The best answer you're going to get is if you hold two knives side by side,
you can say, "this has older features than that one, and it certainly is not as old as a 50's knife, and it's not Generation X"

If you asked me when they started "Retro-Style-Picklock" production . . .I couldn't tell you . . .and I lived thru it.
I remember seeing them first appear on "BladeAuction" . .long since defunct website. . .
I remember they were commenting. . .too bad they are not dovetailed springs, and pinned brackets.

Someday, 40 years from now, a new collector is going to have to re-establish the facts we all have hashed out,
because nobody wrote a book on year 2002 automatics yet.

[button_man]

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Your eyes are doing just fine..... an ordinary fridge magnet won't stick to the button; but a powerful rare earth magnet does.
While nickel is very slightly magnetic, a tiny bit of it like this would not act that way. Everything points to stainless steel.
The pivot pin attracts even a small, very weak magnet and is clearly steel.

Even though you can't narrow down the manufacture of this knife to a rainy Tuesday in August of a certain year,
is there a general range in which it would have been made? 1957 to 1961 or something along those lines...? Thanks!


"I wrote it down so I wouldn't HAVE to remember -- !" ~ Henry Jones Sr. (Sean Connery) "Indiana Jones & The Holy Grail"
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