New Opportunities to Reverse the Ivory Ban

[john]

Following is an email from Rob Mitchell from the Elephant Protection Association

New Congress - New Opportunities to Reverse the Ivory Ban

From the nomination of Representative Ryan Zinke to Secretary of Interior to indications from the President Elect and his family about their attitudes toward wildlife and Africa, there is very good reason to be optimistic about reversing the domestic ivory ban. This is an administration that will take sustainable use seriously. They understand the need to balance needs of wildlife with the practical needs of people who live alongside it. They are also clearly concerned about the welfare of average Americans and do not get lost in abstract arguments concerning global world

Help us raise these issues with the next Congress. Make yourself heard, and keep this issue on Congress's agenda. Our best chance for reform is for Congress and the administration working together to restore sanity to this ivory ban debate. Click "Take Action" below to send a quick e-mail to your Member of Congress.

Take Action -

http://elephantprotection.org/app/write ... gfHlA&lp=0

[sammy the blade]

I have no problem with ivory as long as you don't kill elephants to get it, they are an endangered species. As long as jungle runners are supplying the ivory elephants will die. Ivory could be harvested without killing elephants but not by the people supplying it for sale. It would have to be government supplied ivory or conservation office's of some sort but I don't see that happening. Is it really worth killing off a specie's to get it?

[JimBrown257]

I have no problem with ivory as long as you don't kill elephants to get it

The problem with those exceptions, like that or the "pre-ban" thing is that they can give the poachers a way to get around laws. Because without cost-prohibitive testing, there is no real way to prove it is pre-ban or it is no-kill ivory. So the whole thing is basically like saying "I bought a TV for $20 from a guy in a van but I know it wasn't stolen because the guy who sold it to me told me it wasn't stolen." Maybe it wasn't stolen, but I wouldn't put it past a guy in a van (or an ivory poacher for that matter) to lie about it. Or maybe a better example would be "Oh, sure: I guarantee it's not a blood diamond!!" Sure they might have paperwork to "prove" it but all that really proves is they have access to a printer.

On the other hand, a lot of times these bans just make many people want the item in question more. Especially in places like China and Korea, where the economy is growing (and they don't give a fck about animals) a new upper class is looking for status symbols. When they find out that stuff like ivory is illegal, they just want a big hunk of it to show off. And the horrors that go into getting it only make it more attractive to them.

And I get that there are legitimate ivory antiques (pianos, gun grips, statues, etc) that are often the main victim of bans. I happen to be of the opinion that the closest thing to one of those things is an antique decorated with parts of a human skull but others might not feel as strongly.

Really the only thing you can do if you care about elephants is not buy ivory yourself and not be impressed by things that do have it. The laws might be well-meaning but anything happening in America right now probably won't have much of an effect on the elephant population.

[Luke_of_Mass]

...without cost-prohibitive testing, there is no real way to prove it is pre-ban or it is no-kill ivory.

I had no idea it was even possible to test for something like that... how can this be determined?

Personally I think repealing the Federal Switchblade Act of 1958 would be a more beneficial cause overall, that is if we could only have one or the other...

[JimBrown257]

I had no idea it was even possible to test for something like that... how can this be determined?

There is some sort of chemical testing that can be done if they can use a sample of the ivory but it is not something that can be done by many labs (and most of the testing is to see if it is actually ivory and not just its age). Stuff like carbon dating doesn't work as that is for stuff at least 300-500 years old. I think the main way they usually do aging like that is by other evidence, like the style of the piece or other indicators (kind of like how we do here when someone is curious about the age of the knife.

Personally I think repealing the Federal Switchblade Act of 1958 would be a more beneficial cause overall, that is if we could only have one or the other...

I would say the well being of a disappearing elephant population is ultimately a more important issue than a law about certain pocket knives crossing state lines.

As much as I love switchblades, I would say any switchblade laws are a pretty minor issue in the 21st century. Maybe a few sellers get hassled or loses a few knives once in a while but it's pretty much a non-issue other than that. Besides for a few "It is your responsibilities to know the law in your...." disclaimers, the laws don't seem to affect things very much. They are bullsh!t laws that have no place in a free society so most of us have no problem not even considering them to be laws.

[sammy the blade]

I'm pretty shallow but I watch alot of educational tv. I have seen piles and piles of tusks that poachers can't sell because of the ban. It's a shame all those elephants died for nothing but that's the way it is.

[fastr19]

Elephant Protection Association...Ha!

[Luke_of_Mass]

I would say the well being of a disappearing elephant population is ultimately a more important issue than a law about certain pocket knives crossing state lines.

I think you misunderstood me, I'm saying lifting restrictions on switchblades would be more harmless/beneficial for the collector community than lifting restrictions on the ivory trade, being for the same reasoning concerning the danger to the dwindling elephant population. You are right about how the switchblade act doesn't change many things thanks to the "know your laws" disclaimers, but after getting over $200 in swing guards seized/"go missing" in the mail, you might sing a different tune. It's for that reason I always hold my breath and cross my fingers whenever I buy a nice switch, and why I never buy more than 1 at a time anymore.

If protecting the elephants by restricting the ivory trade does away with affordable ivory scales, then so be it; it's really no big deal for me. Many other beautiful options to choose from!

[JimBrown257]

I think you misunderstood me,

I did misunderstand your comment, I see now what you actually meant.

Anyways, I've had pretty good luck with the mail (actually, I've yet to lose anything). As long as the sender doesn't put something like "The Switchblade Store" on the return address, the stuff is usually pretty safe. The funny thing is that there are some people who put stuff that is pretty similar to that on their packages.

It would be nice to see the knife laws scrapped but the switchblade lobby is sadly lacking at the moment, lol.

[Bill DeShivs]

Banning ivory does nothing to protect elephants.
Most poached ivory goes to China.
I the authorities that seize poached ivory would actually put it on the market at much less than market value, this would lower the price of ivory and make poaching less desirable.
Instead, they burn the ivory.

[john]

Banning ivory does nothing to protect elephants.
Most poached ivory goes to China.
I the authorities that seize poached ivory would actually put it on the market at much less than market value, this would lower the price of ivory and make poaching less desirable.
Instead, they burn the ivory.

Bill you're spot on.
The poachers need a real job. It's the same issue everywhere "Income Inequality."
The ivory Ban as it is written would include all ivory including for example your grandmothers broach, the piano keys on your piano, your guitar frets and bridge. Everything made from or with ivory you own is illegal and subject fines and will be confiscated if you can not prove it is 100-year-old ivory.
Research the law it does not help the elephants.
Elephants must be protected. They have structured society. They're wonderful animals that must be saved.

[Viking45]

Having a love and deep respect for animals, for ages I have been against anything having to do with ivory-the selling of, harvesting period.
It would be second nature for me to pull the trigger on a human being with his sights set on an elephant, sport or otherwise.
These creatures are some of God's finest creations with their intense love and nurturing of others and exquisite personalities found in few other groups such as dolphin,whales,chimpanzees and many others. However the pachyderm stands alone.

True you don't have to kill an elephant or a rhinoceros to harvest their ivory/horn but is it ok?
Is stripping an animal of the very thing that defines them ok?
No.
It really burns my ass when I think of the mindless objects man uses ivory for- (in the past) piano keys,jewelry,home decor etc etc.
Are you f***ing kidding me!
Knife scales for a switchblade that is going to sit in a display case....a glorified letter opener?

I have no problem with bone for numerous reasons, most animals are not harvested for their bone only. Antler grows back but elephant ivory does not.
An elephant tusk is a "modified" tooth, like a human tooth once broken it may still have a root but will not continue to grow.
Taking an elephant's tusk in my mind is pure evil and a sin against nature.

Anyone promoting the buying/selling/harvesting of elephant or rhinoceros ivory would never be welcome in my home.
Watch this-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF8em4uPdCg

[john]

The ban is blanket. It covers old ivory and makes it illegal to own, sell, trade, etc. it even goes as far as making extinct mammoth ivory illegal.

China the worlds largest consumer of illegal ivory said that in 2017 they would no longer participate in the consumption of illegal poached Ivory. I hope they keep their word.

I do not believe any animal should be killed for its horn, skin or any other part of its body. I certainly hope that horn on our knives was harvested naturally, like the animal shedding its horn, if the animal died of natural causes or as a food for human consumption.

[sammy the blade]

Italians are a little more civilized than the African poachers so I'm reasonably sure the bulls aren't slaughtered for the horn. At least I hope not.

[lance]

Ive seen in nature documentarys that they're able to remove an elephants tusks without killing or seriously hurting the animal,so that the poachers wont kill them for the ivory.,
Also what bill mentioned,by destroying the value you also kill the demand