Frank B stamp

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Genghis Khan
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by Genghis Khan »

If one has a "fake" as mentioned in this thread, are they still made somewhere in Italy or are they Asian in origin?
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john
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by john »

lars wrote:John, I copied and saved what I believe is the list Frank sent to you:
:) Hope I got it right

1960-70 BV&F was used by Frank's father

Before 1996 Frank's old tang stamp was lower case b (capital letter "B" was used by Renzo)

1996 to 2004 Frank used Stiletto Italy (AB Cutlery in 1996 also used Stiletto Italy. So, it is difficult to know for sure for 3-4 years)

2003-2004 Frank started using Frank B


Hi Lars,

You found it. I couldn't find my email from Frank. Now I'm going to put this info someplace where I can find it.

Thank you,

John
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by john »

Terminator4447 wrote:my knife says frank upper case B over Italy and very thinly etched. Real or fake

Those are made by Frank Beltramre. There are a lot of those lightly stamped knives. I have several.
Last edited by john on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by john »

Upper case "B" was used by Renzo Beltrame.
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by john »

Hi Lars,
You got it right!
Thank you for posting my original post.
John
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Terminator4447
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by Terminator4447 »

JulesVane wrote:
Terminator4447 wrote:my knife says frank upper case B over Italy and very thinly etched. Real or fake
Hi Terminator...according to Lars' post above, Frank Beltrame used the Frank B (upper case B) from 2003-2004 to present. These guys know their stuff, so I agree, it's real. Hope so...mine have that stamp as well...lol

If it is real it seams like a real piece of crap. i was expecting a knife with at least half decent steel. this crap is one step above pot metal. i bought a decent aga for 300$. im not even sure its ligit either where are all the high quality knives at. i want buck 110 grade steel
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by john »

Hello Terminator4447,
If I’m not mistaken Frank’s and AGA’s stiletto knives ste almost always made with 430 or 440 steel.
Contact the seller see if you can swap your FB for another knife.
By the way your knife is genuine.
I’m sorry to hear your unhappy with your knife. Let’s us know if you can exchange it.
John
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Panzerfaust
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by Panzerfaust »

As a collector of the stilettos made in the 1950s and 1960s, that can ruin you on appreciating the modern knives which are no where near the quality of the vintage ones. I always check the safety of a modern knife because many of them don't work.
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Luke_of_Mass
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by Luke_of_Mass »

Renzo Beltrame uses a different rendition of "Stiletto Italy" - not sure when he started using it, and although he still does use it, not all of his pieces even get stamps. I doubt anyone has really kept tabs on exactly what his stamp timeline has been, as it appears he apparently doesn't really care about stamps much as evidenced by the total absence of his own name on any of his pieces, expecially in this modern age of branded Maniago cutlery - I do, however, as an ardent Beltrame collector, feel it is also important to be able to tell the difference between Frank's "Stiletto Italy" and Renzo's ...

Frank's is in the same "font" as his modern "Frank B Italy" stamp, and just as light. Renzo's is smaller, more compact, and often times is crooked, as if put on as an afterthought...

See attached picture for reference; modern Renzo on left, 1990's Frank on right:

Image
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Luke_of_Mass
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by Luke_of_Mass »

Terminator4447 wrote:i want buck 110 grade steel
Short of the ATS-34 AB picklock Bernie's been trying to offload for a few months, you're gonna have a bad time looking for 'lettos with working-quality steel. :lol:
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ILikeStilettos
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by ILikeStilettos »

Luke_of_Mass wrote:Renzo Beltrame uses a different rendition of "Stiletto Italy" - not sure when he started using it, and although he still does use it, not all of his pieces even get stamps. I doubt anyone has really kept tabs on exactly what his stamp timeline has been, as it appears he apparently doesn't really care about stamps much as evidenced by the total absence of his own name on any of his pieces, expecially in this modern age of branded Maniago cutlery - I do, however, as an ardent Beltrame collector, feel it is also important to be able to tell the difference between Frank's "Stiletto Italy" and Renzo's ...

Frank's is in the same "font" as his modern "Frank B Italy" stamp, and just as light. Renzo's is smaller, more compact, and often times is crooked, as if put on as an afterthought...

See attached picture for reference; modern Renzo on left, 1990's Frank on right:

Image
How confident of that are you? I've seen both stamps, but I never heard your explanation. Beltrame is a common name in Italy. There are three Beltrame brothers: Francesco (Frank), Armando, and Paulo, who is Arthas's dad. His mom, Renza, worked for Armando. Sara and I believe Kyle are Frank's kids. Paulo is not in the knife business. Frank and Amando are in opposite sides of the same building. Renzo Beltrame is supposedly no relation, or perhaps so distantly related it counts as none. I understood that Renzo had the only forge and made all the blades for both brothers. Because of economy and high end lines, import stamps, lack of stamps for domestic use, brand naming (like Walt's Latama) and a generally cooperative attitude, I never believed the stamps to mean much of anything. I wouldn't be shocked that any given knife hadn't passed across multiple workpieces and operations. All three of the Beltrame cutlers, Lucio Dibon, and Renzo Pascotto are in their seventies and not so active as they were a decade ago. I've pieced this together from many sources and I'm old and half senile myself. Ignore my ramblings if you prefer.
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Luke_of_Mass
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by Luke_of_Mass »

Frank's father, Ivano, and Renzo's father, Danilo were brothers and both worked with BV&F - making Frank, Armando and Paulo cousins with Renzo. Renzo's official business title is literally "Beltrame Renzo of Danilo - S.N.C. of Lorenzo Beltrame & C.

Frank's children are Sara and Ivano, the latter presumably named in honor of Frank's father.

I'm not sure about Renzo having the only forge in Maniago, but for all I know, he might. I do know, however, that the vast majority of production pieces are no longer forged, but instead die-punched from flat stock, much like Victorinox's operation but on a much smaller and more modest scale. There was a picture of the spent stock with stiletto blade-shaped holes and the dies that produced them in the fredde10 album which was on sharperdeals, but it's since been taken down... What I can show you is Marko's picture of freshly punched blades - notice how none of them have grinds yet, all are far too identical to have been forged, and have rounded corners on one side:

Image

This is clearly the work of precision machining, rather than forging - I am sure some of the nicer pieces coming out of Maniago - namely the larger pieces by Renzo Pascotto - are still forged. Just about all the damascus steel used in knives is prepared as flat stock by the Swedish company Damasteel, and blades are punched out similarly to that of normal steel.

I've heard Renzo does in fact make all the 13'' stiletto blades in Maniago, but since the only one I've heard saying it was roadsideimports, I'm a bit hesitant to totally take what that guy says seriously. I don't own enough 13'' stilettos to compare to each other though, being mostly an 8 and 9 inch collector with the occasional 7 and 11 inch piece finding its way into my hoard.

You're absolutely right that largely stamps never meant much of anything because of the cooperative nature of the Maniago cutlery operation as a whole as well as restrictive laws worldwide that might incriminate certain people for putting their names on knives, but, mainly in the last 15-20 years it's looking more and more like the guys are less afraid to etch and stamp markings a little more original than "INOX" or "Rostfrei" - Campolin and their AKC line do it regularly, as do AB and Frank Beltrame - hell even Renzo Pascotto has his intriguing signature and sunrise image stamped into his blades, yet Renzo Beltrame chooses to remain a bit cryptic by comparison to his colleagues; this fuels my assumption that stamps mean less to him than the others... Of course the theory and very realistic possibility that Renzo Beltrame is supporting himself mainly by working behind the scenes, supplying parts to everyone else, while trickling out some of his own pieces on the side helps too.

Even if people are sharing parts, I think a considerable part of a knife's identity is who ultimately put it together in the end, and with stilettos being what they are, it's not too hard to notice certain trends of similar quirks as a result of the particular habits of those who put these knives together: Renzo Beltrame's knives being prone to having the pin to the right of the safety switch sticking out a little more than Armando or Frank's pieces, for example. Take out a few of his pieces, along with a few Frank's and Armando's (no doubt a guy like you owns at least a few from each ;)) and I'm sure you'll notice this detail now that it's been pointed out - as well as Renzo's choice to buff the bolsters and blades more thoroughly, giving them more of a mirror finish.

There's more minute quirks to be had/scrutinized about each of their pieces, but I'll spare everyone my observations of such as they are borderline obsessive - OCD is a blessing, and a burdon lol
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ILikeStilettos
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Re: Frank B stamp

Post by ILikeStilettos »

Thanks, Luke (or is it Chris?) for the succinct and detailed reply. OCD or not, your post is full of great information. I wholeheartedly agree about your "consider the source" approach to this perennial question. Likewise, I see no reason to dispute anything you've offered. I accept and deeply appreciate your candor and logic. Bravo, my friend, bravo.
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