The Infamous Black Beauty
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- ILikeStilettos
- Posts: 1576
- Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:36 pm
- Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA
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Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
Ok, don't forget that George Cameron owns the trademark "Black Beauty" and has built a few switches with that name. Walt Harucha (spelling?) owns "Latama" and that brand is still produced as well. People speak of these brands as if they were last available in the 50's and are strictly vintage, like Astor or Alamo. Brand names can be purchased, but must be maintained and defended against counterfeiting. It takes a lot of money to do this. Look at how many products are called "York".
Sorry, I didn't notice the original post date since someone commented recently and it showed up in my login as new. Also sorry I stumbled in on a pissing contest. Just forget I said anything.
Sorry, I didn't notice the original post date since someone commented recently and it showed up in my login as new. Also sorry I stumbled in on a pissing contest. Just forget I said anything.
Last edited by ILikeStilettos on Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dave Sause
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690
"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"
"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."
oldandfat@cox.net
(405) 694-3690
"And you're telling me this because, somehow, I look like I give a shit?"
"Let a smile be your umbrella and you're gonna get your dumb ass wet."
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
In a world of collecting antique and vintage knives anything past about 1969 really can’t be considered the same company. Especially after a 30-40 year gap and nothing is made the same.ILikeStilettos wrote:Ok, don't forget that George Cameron owns the trademark "Black Beauty" and has built a few switches with that name. Walt Harucha (spelling?) owns "Latama" and that brand is still produced as well. People speak of these brands as if they were last available in the 50's and are strictly vintage, like Astor or Alamo. Brand names can be purchased, but must be maintained and defended against counterfeiting. It takes a lot of money to do this. Look at how many products are called "York".
Many of the original companies don’t even exist anymore and haven’t for a long time. Just owning a trademark or a home made certificate on a name 50 years later doesn’t really have anything to do with a knife made 60 years ago.
Italian and USA Doctorate in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
- Bill DeShivs
- Yes.
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 2:50 pm
- Location: In de lan o' cotton
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Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
In case most of you can't figure out why Orangboy would comment on 7 year old postings- he has a beef with me.
The foreman of Mauro Mario, Angelo Campolin, Sr. issued me a "home made" certificate authorizing me as a Mauro Mario repair station.
Several people have recalled ordering "Black Beauty" autos, and receiving either Mauro Mario knives, or generic "Made in Italy" marked knives.
Having worked on several Black Beauties, I can say the construction and blade grinds on the ones I have seen are consistent with Mauro Mario production. I'm sure that different makers supplied the wholesalers of these knives, just like they did with Latama, Coricama, Jndiana, and other consortiums.
Orangboy may very well have documentation showing otherwise-but at this point, its all super secret stuff- and should he post this documentation, the picture will only be available for a short while.
His research skills are very good. His motivations are questionable.
The foreman of Mauro Mario, Angelo Campolin, Sr. issued me a "home made" certificate authorizing me as a Mauro Mario repair station.
Several people have recalled ordering "Black Beauty" autos, and receiving either Mauro Mario knives, or generic "Made in Italy" marked knives.
Having worked on several Black Beauties, I can say the construction and blade grinds on the ones I have seen are consistent with Mauro Mario production. I'm sure that different makers supplied the wholesalers of these knives, just like they did with Latama, Coricama, Jndiana, and other consortiums.
Orangboy may very well have documentation showing otherwise-but at this point, its all super secret stuff- and should he post this documentation, the picture will only be available for a short while.
His research skills are very good. His motivations are questionable.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
Huh, I’m not really sure what you are talking about. Someone else posted today and I added to the thread.Bill DeShivs wrote:In case most of you can't figure out why Orangboy would comment on 7 year old postings- he has a beef with me.
The foreman of Mauro Mario, Angelo Campolin, Sr. issued me a "home made" certificate authorizing me as a Mauro Mario repair station.
Several people have recalled ordering "Black Beauty" autos, and receiving either Mauro Mario knives, or generic "Made in Italy" marked knives.
Having worked on several Black Beauties, I can say the construction and blade grinds on the ones I have seen are consistent with Mauro Mario production. I'm sure that different makers supplied the wholesalers of these knives, just like they did with Latama, Coricama, Jndiana, and other consortiums.
Orangboy may very well have documentation showing otherwise-but at this point, its all super secret stuff- and should he post this documentation, the picture will only be available for a short while.
His research skills are very good. His motivations are questionable.
I was responding to their post. Your name was never spoken about by me in this thread. I’m not sure why you would attract me??
Mauro Mario was a company formed by two brothers. Elso and Mauro. It lasted less than ten years. One ran the company in Italy while the other was a salesman in the US. They had sizes made by several different makers. I believe Angelo Jr. said they only owned tooling for the 13” knives.
And all evidence points to another maker in Italy making the Black Beauty knives.
Italian and USA Doctorate in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
- Bill DeShivs
- Yes.
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 2:50 pm
- Location: In de lan o' cotton
- Contact:
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
Of course you didn't mention my name. Show us the evidence.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
Do you have evidence on all the Mauro Mario made knIves? Just curious. So far you have said the knives marked “Made Italy 6” were made by Mauro Mario and also “Black Beauty” knIves too. This is great information - if it’s true...Bill DeShivs wrote:Of course you didn't mention my name. Show us the evidence.
Hopefully you have documentation to prove this. It would be a great help to the community for you to share it with us all
Of course, Mauro Mario didn’t really make any of their knives. Different shops made different sizes.
I have been asked to help on a project and I’m gathering up info on them. Apparently no one has anything on them other than a name.
Italian and USA Doctorate in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
- Bill DeShivs
- Yes.
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 2:50 pm
- Location: In de lan o' cotton
- Contact:
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
No documentation other than what I have seen. I see a lot of knives-most from a viewpoint no one else sees (inside.)
You misquote me- I said A knife was made by Mauro, and that I have seen Black Beautys that appear to have been made by them.
You misquote me- I said A knife was made by Mauro, and that I have seen Black Beautys that appear to have been made by them.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
Sorry for the misquote... what about the “Made Italy 6” knives?Bill DeShivs wrote:No documentation other than what I have seen. I see a lot of knives-most from a viewpoint no one else sees (inside.)
You misquote me- I said A knife was made by Mauro, and that I have seen Black Beautys that appear to have been made by them.
I need soldi info for the project I’m doing. You definitely said the Made Italy 6 knives were
Italian and USA Doctorate in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
Wait..now I’m confused?Bill DeShivs wrote:Apparently, most Black Beautys were not marked as such. Examples of the marking are rare, but there are autos and later lockbacks with the marking.
I believe most were Mauro Mario manufacture.
Italian and USA Doctorate in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
- Bill DeShivs
- Yes.
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 2:50 pm
- Location: In de lan o' cotton
- Contact:
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
I said the knife that you are obsessed with was made by Mauro Mario.
I said I believe most Black Beautys were made by Mauro Mario.
I said I believe most Black Beautys were made by Mauro Mario.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
All I’m asking is for solid info on these stamps- from you or anyone. Can you show us your proof? Either you can or you made it up. If you have proof and you arent just lying, then maybe we can use the info for the new project?Bill DeShivs wrote:I said the knife that you are obsessed with was made by Mauro Mario.
I said I believe most Black Beautys were made by Mauro Mario.
Italian and USA Doctorate in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
Here is my collection of magazines documenting the Black Beauty history. I also have three of their catalogs and their official business license signed by the owner. I also have paperwork and photographs clearly showing knives - and they aren’t from Mauro Mario.
I’ll bet there are collectors in this hobby that have not ever spent the money to even buy one of these magazines
I’ll bet there are collectors in this hobby that have not ever spent the money to even buy one of these magazines
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Italian and USA Doctorate in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
- Bill DeShivs
- Yes.
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 2:50 pm
- Location: In de lan o' cotton
- Contact:
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
I "made it up" due to my observations of the internal and external construction of the knives. How's that? My perspective is a little different than most collectors'.
As I said, it would all be a big secret. A collection of magazines proves nothing. I have many old magazines, books and knife catalogs. If any of them proved anything I would show it.
Show us your documentation- not just pictures of old magazines. I'm always ready to learn something new. Or, is it another big secret?
As I said, it would all be a big secret. A collection of magazines proves nothing. I have many old magazines, books and knife catalogs. If any of them proved anything I would show it.
Show us your documentation- not just pictures of old magazines. I'm always ready to learn something new. Or, is it another big secret?
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
35 makers could have used the same external and internal construction. Yet you can say with 100% certantity the Made Italy 6 knives were made by Mauro Mario.Bill DeShivs wrote:I "made it up" due to my observations of the internal and external construction of the knives. How's that? My perspective is a little different than most collectors'.
As I said, it would all be a big secret. A collection of magazines proves nothing. I have many old magazines, books and knife catalogs. If any of them proved anything I would show it.
Show us your documentation- not just pictures of old magazines. I'm always ready to learn something new. Or, is it another big secret?
You’ve avoided the question three times. You’re trying to fight rather than tell the truth.
Italian and USA Doctorate in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
Italian and USA Masters in Cutlery Research, PHD
- Bill DeShivs
- Yes.
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 2:50 pm
- Location: In de lan o' cotton
- Contact:
Re: The Infamous Black Beauty
I don't appreciate being called a liar.
What we need is good solid evidence and documentation-which you say you have. Produce it, and stop the attacks.
I would love to see it.
You may have it, but I think if you actually did you would have already posted it, due to your incessant need to be "right."
What we need is good solid evidence and documentation-which you say you have. Produce it, and stop the attacks.
I would love to see it.
You may have it, but I think if you actually did you would have already posted it, due to your incessant need to be "right."
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.