AKC clones

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BTB0923
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Re: AKC clones

Post by BTB0923 »

jmack1944 wrote:1. You're telling me that stilettos marked Milano and Italy are not counterfeits?
Yes. They're not counterfeits, they're knives with a misrepresented country of origin. There is a difference. Although its not a moral practice, I sincerely doubt these misleading tang stamps hurt the Italian cutlery industry. Anyone whose opinion matters knows the difference between an Italian made and Asian made regardless of the stamp.
jmack1944 wrote:2. I agree that ripping off the AKC trademark is abhorrent and illegal btw. But I also find that stilettos stamped Italy or Milano are equally abhorrent and illegal.
I don't. There isn't any specific company having a design stolen. What is being used is the traditional Italian design, which has no patents. Its not a good thing, but its not like someone trying to reproduce and AKC logo on an Asian made knife.
jmack1944 wrote:3. I believe that all knives should be stamped with the country or area of true manufacture and origin.
I agree, but like I said its not as big a deal as counterfeits.
jmack1944 wrote:Has anyone other than me noticed how difficult it seems to be to buy "Milano" stilettos. I read recently that they are very quickly becoming very popular with collectors who expect their price to increase with time.
No, I haven't. I'm wondering if you read that in one of these threads, which were both speculation by same single member of this forum who was just excited about a new purchase...

http://www.talkblade.info/viewtopic.php ... no#p195923
http://www.talkblade.info/viewtopic.php ... no#p196790

What escapes me about this is how you could say the "Milano" stilettos like its some particular group of stilettos that were all made in the same place by the same people. There are countless diffferent variations of crappy Asian-made Italian wannabe stilettos that have been made and stamped Milano throughout the years. Unless I'm missing something, it seems kinda ridiculous to speculate that the "Milano stilettos" in particular are becoming collectible.
Click here for the most recently updated list of movies covered in our "movie switchblades" thread...
http://www.talkblade.info/viewtopic.php ... 08#p216408
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jmack1944
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Re: AKC clones

Post by jmack1944 »

sicboy13 wrote:I, personally, find that clones marketed as such are OK in some respects. Allow me to explain, I just bought a Titan OTF, which I'm told is sort of a Scarab clone. It was $40 compared to $400 for a real Scarab. I don't feel that took anything away from MT, as I cannot afford a MT, therefore wouldnt be in the market for one anyway. They never lost a sale because I was never in the market. I feel those who can afford the name brand will buy the name brand, and I got what I paid for, a $40 letter opener that I am very happy with. (If I'm spending $400, I'm buying something that goes BOOM, not click).

Now when someone takes the time to sell clones with the intent of deceiving the buyer, then I have a problem with that. I've read about the AKC clones, and I know the clone makers go to some pretty serious extents to try to trick the buyers, i.e. fake stamps, boxes, etc. NOT cool. I think the whole issue is intent. Is the seller/manufacturer intending on the buyer thinking they are getting an original or a clone? I mean, as kids, I got Lee jeans, not Levi's. One could argue that Lee's are Levi clones, but they have a Lee tag, not the Levi tag. The intent was never to deceive the buyer, only offer a similar product, albeit usually a cheaper quality product, but at a more affordable price. Those who still wanted the quality and the name buy the real thing. Always have, always will.

Lastly, I mean no offense, so everyone put on their big boy pants, but I get a little upset when I see the "this has been discussed"... "use the search function" comments, too... I see that here and on another forum I frequent. I'm sure everything posted on here has been posted/discussed at least 5 times or more in another thread at one time or another. I want interaction, and just from reading the "warriors" thread that got rose from the dead, the members change, therefore the discussion changes. That is why we come here, to discuss things, not search. That's what google is for. I can see if the front page has 2-3 threads that are similar, that can get annoying, but I have been here for a few months and don't recall this coming up anytime recently.


Hope that last comment didnt make me any enemies, but it's how I feel.
Mr. Sicboy Amen and Thank You. Nice to see a reasonable and considered reply. Don't agree with everything you said but it was well thought out and intelligently conveyed. Especially your "not why we come here, to discuss things, not search". It is really annoying when some "old timer" on forums or boards dismisses questions or postings with the hackneyed phrase "it has already been discussed here in previous threads". Kinda makes one gun shy to post or reply.
Last edited by jmack1944 on Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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natcherly
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Re: AKC clones

Post by natcherly »

jmack1944 wrote:It is really annoying when some "old timer" on forums or boards dismisses questions or postings with the hackneyed phrase "it has already been discussed here in previous threads". The "ad nausea" (and yes, that is the correct spelling) is really a kick in the gonads to someone who has not read the myriad postings. Kinda makes one gun shy to post or reply.
Time to don your big boy pants, Messrs JM'44 and SB13. There are indeed times when it is better for the newcomer to do some research so that he/she/herm/shim/it (I live in San Francisco so must cover all bases) can ask more intelligent questions. This leads to better discussions. As a newcomer a while back, I found the search function (advanced) an excellent way to find info. There are also times when revisiting a topic only opens wounds or the doors to great boredom (aka ennui). In these cases it is not unwise or uncivil for someone, greybeard or otherwise, to mention that the particular topic has already been beaten to death...are we there yet?
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jmack1944
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Re: AKC clones

Post by jmack1944 »

Mr. N. how about a reasonable reply to my original question put to you a few posts ago? I'm very interested in your opinion. A substantial and logical opinion. I thank you in advance.
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natcherly
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Re: AKC clones

Post by natcherly »

jmack1944 wrote:Mr. N. how about a reasonable reply to my original question put to you a few posts ago? I'm very interested in your opinion. A substantial and logical opinion. I thank you in advance.
Reading Jarvis' and BTB0923's posts, they pretty much covered it for me. I have nothing to add.

Why do I sense that you are really not looking for elucidating discussions but rather seek to engender conflict?
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whippersnapper
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Re: AKC clones

Post by whippersnapper »

I'm guilty of often suggesting search...

Sometimes I do it out of laziness and because I am a very slow/bad typer. Sometimes because I have to search myself to remember specifics, it's just easier to post links to old threads.

And because it seems like only a handful of us visit daily, or try to answer questions, it gets redundant and tireing sometimes. Especially when the exact same subject has been discussed a few posts down.

It's not really been talked about, but I know many regulars who have been feeling burned out...
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sicboy13
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Re: AKC clones

Post by sicboy13 »

My "search" comment aside, I believe I summed it up nicely. I'll step off my soapbox now :)

My comment was more directed to the "clone" issue, but I do use the search function as well. I believe any discussion brings up points; good points and bad points. Sorry if I offended any "graybeards" (thanks for making me laugh). Remember, it's a forum. "Forum - a public meeting or assembly for open discussion"
Last edited by sicboy13 on Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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john
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Re: AKC clones

Post by john »

In my opinion whenever possible buy the real thing.
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jmack1944
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Re: AKC clones

Post by jmack1944 »

natcherly wrote:
jmack1944 wrote:Mr. N. how about a reasonable reply to my original question put to you a few posts ago? I'm very interested in your opinion. A substantial and logical opinion. I thank you in advance.
Reading Jarvis' and BTB0923's posts, they pretty much covered it for me. I have nothing to add.

Why do I sense that you are really not looking for elucidating discussions but rather seek to engender conflict?
You sound like one of the Bowery Boys.
Last edited by jmack1944 on Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
j.a.c.

Re: AKC clones

Post by j.a.c. »

I belong to a bunch of forum covering many topics/ hobbies and try to answer questions when asked ,but when the same one is asked a 100 times I get annoyed and suggest the search function.
Most people will use it but there are also some very lazy people who would rather have someone else do the work for them. Also us old dudes remember life prior to the interweb when you had to go to the library or open a book to get answers. Having done that for many yrs it baffles me when someone complains that it too much work to search for the answer and expect everyone to drop what they're doing and post the answer for them.
I'm not pointing at anyone here ,but see it on all the forums I frequent on a daily basis.
Even seen someone post a question that was asked and answered 5 minutes ago.

So please understand why sometimes we might get snarky with a reply or if really annoyed don't be surprised to see something like this as an answer .(random example)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=akc+clone
whitehorn
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Re: AKC clones

Post by whitehorn »

Wow, this took a different direction than i thought it would 8) I was just curious if the Chinese and Taiwanese got any better with copying the stiletto! Other than the Halo and most other otfs, they done a pretty good job in making cheap, reliable copies of autos. Granted, not nearly as good or well made as the Americans/German autos, but decent. They still have not mastered in making a stiletto copy with a decent safety. They did make a nice scarab clone though. :D
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j.a.c.

Re: AKC clones

Post by j.a.c. »

:lol: 50 - 75 % of the real stilettos have defective safeties as well. They're more of a novelty / collectible than a user knife so they never bothered to improve on it.
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whippersnapper
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Re: AKC clones

Post by whippersnapper »

whitehorn wrote:Wow, this took a different direction than i thought it would 8) I was just curious if the Chinese and Taiwanese got any better with copying the stiletto! Other than the Halo and most other otfs, they done a pretty good job in making cheap, reliable copies of autos. Granted, not nearly as good or well made as the Americans/German autos, but decent. They still have not mastered in making a stiletto copy with a decent safety. They did make a nice scarab clone though. :D
OK, back to your question and my worthless opinion....

Here are two 13" stilettos marked AKC....
AKC 001.JPG
AKC 001.JPG (77.76 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
AKC 002.JPG
AKC 002.JPG (134.49 KiB) Viewed 6151 times
The black one is a fake according to what we know about the differences in the AKC blade etch thread... http://www.talkblade.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10269

Both safeties work as intended. Both seem to have the same basic frame material and construction (obviously they have different scales and blade styles). Both blades lean to the right when looking down from the top backspring. Both snap hard for 13" and function good.

Differences are the fake has a longer cut safety slot. Looking through the slot the safety has a blue tint to the stainless on the hidden/indide part of the safety. I have never seen that on a real Italian.

The fake is tighter and has less gap when looking down from the back through the liners. I hate gaps, so atleast on these two knives, the fake wins in that regard.

I haven't handled many 13 inch stilettos, so I'm no expert. My collection is mainly sub 9 inchers. That said, I'm willing to bet 99+% of the people here could not tell the difference between these fake and a real 13" models.


In this head to head comparison in quality with just these 2 knives, quality is the same...Take that for what you want. If the blade etch difference info had not come from the maker himself, I still wouldn't believe the black one was a fake.
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BTB0923
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Re: AKC clones

Post by BTB0923 »

Jmack, I wasn't going to say anything before but since you decided to edit your last post from what was a respectful apology to what is now an childish insult directed at Mr. N I'll go ahead and bring this up.
jmack1944 wrote:The "ad nausea" (and yes, that is the correct spelling) is really a kick in the gonads to someone who has not read the myriad postings. Kinda makes one gun shy to post or reply.
No, you are wrong. Jarvis was right the first time with "ad nauseum". Next time you try to correct somebody I'd make sure you know what you are talking about so you don't end up with your foot in your mouth. And its good that you feel gun shy to post because your lengthy and misinformed post that I replied to before obviously shows that you need to educate yourself a bit further before trying to have these discussions. Its one thing to try and educate oneself by asking questions and another alltogether to try and start discussions by bringing up topics that you seem to think are controversial but know nothing about. The latter is simply an attempt to bring attention to oneself.

Guys, I apologize for having to be unpleasant.
Click here for the most recently updated list of movies covered in our "movie switchblades" thread...
http://www.talkblade.info/viewtopic.php ... 08#p216408
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sicboy13
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Re: AKC clones

Post by sicboy13 »

I want to add a little something as well; I took time to write what I felt was a well-formed reply, but I muddied it by speaking of my disdain for the "search" replies. I know alot of you silverback greybeards( thats friendly name calling :D ) have been here along time, and probably have discussed everything under the sun at least 5 times. Us newbies should use the search a little more I guess.

Also, I wanted to point out that I often edit my posts, but to correct spelling & grammar only. I never change my points, i did add the bolded comment on one of my last posts when I added the definition of "forum", that was it.

I hate seeing threads turn into these types of arguements, but if someone is editing their posts to change what was originally said, allow me to say not cool - (i'd insert the Geico caveman but I'm at work and can't get to photobucket here.)
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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. - Keyser Soze
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