Feds now ban Assisted openers and Flick knives

[The Tourist]

Even here we're actually dividing ourselves.

For us, a knife is a tool. For Joe-average-citizen, a knife can be a weapon. But then so can a door-stop and my Aunt Clara's meat loaf. The Joker killed a guy with a pencil.

But we collectors also know the truth. In the daily use of implements, a knife is not a weapon. For every hoodlum mugging there are one million citizens using a knife to open UPS boxes. For every skinhead with a nazi dagger there are tens of millions of folks cooking the family dinner. For every blade blank of Japanese laminate steel made into a samurai sword there are shipping containers the size of tractor trailors importing kitchenware.

I've been in enough knife forums to see a common thread. Sooner or later a guy asks the entire forum if anyone has ever used a knife for defense. (And the "www" means that forums have millions of members.)

I've seen these posts run a dozen forum pages and I have yet to see a documented case of jackknife used in defense. However, I have sharpened thousands of restaurant knives in the past fifteen years. Get the idea?

By the crushing amount of numbers we all know to be true a knife is not a weapon, and we should not let the bureaucrats and Sarah Bradys bilk the public with false ideas. I've seen numerous switchblade stilettos here at TalkBlade, and I've never seen one splattered in blood.

The "West Side Story" knife fight mentality is a myth, and it should be exposed as such before idiotic legislation becomes fact.

[tyler_rabbit]

Finally got around to reading the stoopid thing last night.. It's very interesting. You can download it from the kniferights site, but if you don't feel like reading it, I'll try to summarize..

We've seen many times how current events and temporary mass hysteria can affect laws, however very often laws are completely random and have little to do with world/nation affairs. This case strikes me as the latter..

Am no lawyer but my understanding of it is that Fiskars sent a knife to US Customs/Border Protection for them to verify that it can be classified as an "assisted opener," and therefore manufactured overseas and imported into the US.. The knife ended up with Custom's Intellectual Property Rights and Restricted Merchandise Branch Chief- a patent lawyer (a type of lawyer only slightly less despicable than a slip-n-fall ambulance chaser) who told them that because it opens with a spring and requires some manner of " human manipulation" to open it, that it is in fact a switchblade.

Then Fiskars sent him several examples of spring assisted knives already in production, mostly CRKT products, to point out that they were not considered switchblades. Probably irritated, the lawyer wrote back, despite numerous cited rulings to the contrary, that well, yes they are ALL switchblades, and therefore should be prohibited from import into the US under the 1958 Fed. Switchblade Hysteria Act.

In the document, I'm not sure I understand to who he's recommending that the definition of "switchblade" be broadened to include spring assisted knives, but there is some frightfully ignorant language. As far as I can tell this lawyer, who has worked w/ Customs/ Border Protection for several years, knows absolutely nothing about knives, because there's a lot of gobblety gook about blade styles and he assumes that there's some kind of distinction between blades that are designed for utilitarian use and those which are designed for violent use. He also asserts that knives which open quickly via single handed operation are not designed primarily to be utilitarian.

The other slightly alarming element to the doc is that it seems to uphold NY definitions regarding "gravity knives" as switchblades, and it gets really murky regarding thumbstuds. It's that old thing where technically by definition, even a Swiss Army knife can be considered "illegal."

Since all this BS seems to be centered around the import of assisted openers, am not sure what the impact will be on those who merely carry and use them, but I do think it's grossly uninformed position sets a somewhat dangerous precedent. I suppose everyone's fear is that subsequent state rulings will cite the document in question for lawmaking and ruling purposes, although as we all know, generally individual states write and enforce their own laws regarding knives. One never knows, but personally I don't think it will lead to federal enforcement against the carry of assisted openers and knives with thumbstuds, but it's a ludicrous interpretation of the 1958 law and I hope it irritates you all as much as it does me..

[vernfonk]

Seems they deemed spring assists illegal in San Antonio, Texas.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... php?id=115

[Vagrant]

Seems they deemed spring assists illegal in San Antonio, Texas.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... php?id=115

Even places you THOUGHT were America, UN-Americans are multiplying and taking over

[gt0915]

We have the same tough laws here in Australia, flick, spring assisted, button lock, gravity, butterfly, OTF and swords are all controlled (you have to have a VERY expensive license to import and keep them, $160.00 every 3 years, and they are treated the same as having a gun, must be locked up at all times in a gun/rifle safe) cops can do an inspection at any time and paintball markers are treated the same as a true gun!

A small extract from the Australian police web site on knives, "In 2006 we gave police extra powers on knife laws. They've got tough search and seizure powers as far as the penalties are concerned. The $550 is for the first offence, but after that there are jail terms."

also

Victorian laws control and regulate the ownership and use of various types of weapons apart from firearms. The Control of Weapons Act 1990 (Vic) identifies three broad categories of non-firearm weapon namely:

* 'prohibited weapons' - which means any of the 46 weapons listed in Schedule2 of the Control of Weapons Regulations 2000 (Vic) and includes flick knives, daggers, knuckle knives, knuckle dusters, throwing blades, whips with metal lashes, studded or weighted gloves and stun guns;

* 'controlled weapons' - which means a knife, other than a knife that is a prohibited weapon, plus the seven weapons listed in Schedule 2 of the Control of Weapons Regulations 2000 (Vic) (i.e. crossbows, cattle prods, bayonets, batons or cudgels, swords, imitation firearms and spearguns); and

* 'dangerous articles' - which means an article which has been adapted or modified so as to be capable of being used as a weapon; or any other article which is carried with the intention of being used as a weapon (e.g. a cricket stump or bat carried in a crowded area).

My nephew has been cautioned by the police as he was walking home from school running after his mate who had taken is cricket bat and wouldn't give it back, as he had the stumps and the cops thought he was going to hit his mate, my nephew was 12!

I don't even want to think of the poop that I could get into as I now have 2 OTF knives sent to me from roadside imports, they got through Australian customs with no trouble at all.....go figure!

[The Tourist]

They've got tough search and seizure powers as far as the penalties are concerned.

Are these "paper laws" or are they rigorously enforced?

I'll tell you why I asked. If you look at any list of USA state laws you'll find that my state of Wisconsin parallels your experience "on paper."

And yet it's very common for a number of John-Q-Public types to hand me a switchblade to sharpen. In fact, one client handed me an MOD knife and told me it was one those "new assisted opening knives."

Here, the laws on knives are used as a method to get rowdy people off the street. If the guy is causing trouble in a saloon after one of our UW football games--and he has a knife--the cops can utilize our knife laws to take him into custody.

In the 1960's we had a very loud and public debate over things like "stop and frisk laws." For all I know, such laws are still on the books. However, a few years ago, Madison tried to implement a tough loitering law to discourage open market drug dealing on street corners. In some areas it is truly "open and a market."

That strategy wasn't around long. Within a few months there were complaints that most of those arrested were black. Madison is a very politically correct city, and we stress "community policing," which is tantamount to asking blacks if it's okay to arrest them. Last week in the news paper there was an article on police and taser guns. The implication was that the use of tasers was 'racially motivated."

I've carried a knife since the age of eight. However, my first knife (which I still own) was a Cub Scout pocketknife, a very common event for most baby boomers.

But it did stress that 'knives were tools' and the overwhelming majority of my friends feel the same way. To be sure, I've noticed that as I've grown older my knives have grown smaller. By actual use my most utilized knife is a Graham Stubby, a knife with a 1.5 inch blade.

(I just conned Jon Graham into selling me his last "California Special length CRKT folding Razel. My guess is that I'll be re-sharpening that knife from use on a regular basis.)

And I believe that idea is conveyed to via my interaction with police. When I'm stopped for a speeding ticket, I don't mouth off. I produce my license, the Tropper and I exchange the info, and many times I'm simply let go. My pocket clip is right out in the open, but my attitude and beliefs imply my knife is not carried for criminal purposes. I have not been frisked yet despite Wisconsin's "paper laws."

[mpr933]

http://www.blademag.com/article/us-cust ... ing-knives

[The Tourist]

I can understand why most of us are concerned. Any move by the government to "ban" anything we enjoy is a slap in the face. But let's take a breath here. How are they going to enforce it?

Knives are rarely numbered and dated. And like I keep harping, knives are tools. Does anyone, including the most bleeding heart liberal in all of communist Washington D.C., actually think that Homeland Security is going to round up every plumber, carpenter, electrician, biker, sailor, working cowboy and dumb guy on his porch whittling?

Will cocaine dealers immediately stop transporting drugs and switch over to Swiss Army knives?

Yikes, the Federal government has had 50 years from the original 1958 Switchblade Act until now to stamp out these "evil edges" and there's more stilettos now than ever before. You guys are all law abiding citizens and you've got more switchblades than the entire cast of "West Side Story."

I must have nine or ten of them and I don't collect stilettos. And I just had a Due Buoi delivered...

Be calm everyone. Even if they pass the worst law in the land, they have to fund it, enforce it and win the hearts and minds of America.

The "taser gun" was originally built as the a 'safe enforcement tool' that would be used to save lives. Right now in Madison the community believes the taser is a racist tool used by oppressive cops. I think its days are numbered, and it actually works.

We also have jaywalking laws, laws carefully detailing just exactly how small a dancer's thong can be in a strip club, football pool statutes, exhaust pipe decibel standards and just exactly where you can serve hot food. I make part of my living selling autos to cops, and most of the parts in an SW auto are made overseas.

Be level headed and realistic. The monster is never as big as it claims to be.

[Phil Elmore]

It doesn't work that way.

[vernfonk]

The monster is never as big as it claims to be.

I hope you're right but this video from AKTI makes me think otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5KINtCajwI

[The Tourist]

Well, I've also seen people lighting farts on youtube.

For this situation I turn to the wisdom of "Goose" from the movie "Mad Max." (I bought a black 5.0 Mustang because of that movie...)

Goose said, "Don't believe anything until you see the box going into the hole."

[ginrickie1]

In 1985 i got out nof the army.three months latter i was trying to give a guy a ride home in the rain.he stabbed me 6 times.i got away and my the grace of god i got transported to the hospital and live.i am cripple the rest of my lefe because of this.the person stabbed me not the knife.hell i sell knifes.banning knifes is not going to stop the crime problem.

[The Tourist]

In 1985 i got out nof the army...i am cripple the rest of my lefe because of this.

I thank you for your service and I send my prayers. You are indeed right, and I happy that you stated your case here.

I have sent you a PM.

[vernfonk]

Well, I've also seen people lighting farts on youtube.

True but you also have legit folks on there as well and this communication medium is one way to reach a broad audience. So what you're saying is if we see legislation being pushed or attempting to be pushed, we're supposed to stand by because it's another fart in the wind? Not with this administration my friend. I served in the Air Force for 21 years and I see the rights that me and my fellow members fought and died for dwindling away. If it has a hint of legitimacy, I'm going to investigate and do what I can to join in. Look at the loon in Hawaii that attemped to ban pocket knives. It's always the ones that stand by on the side lines and say that will never happen and whoosh, it's law.

[Vagrant]

The only psychological response more common than, "it CAN'T happen HERE" is "this CAN'T be happening to ME"
Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and the democratic national commitee ALL depend[ed] on this reaction