US vs UK

rcktexas · Post by **rcktexas** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:07 pm

Gort wrote:While I tend to agree with her, I'm not recommending anarchy...

The only legitimate function of government is to protect the essential rights of the individual. Included in that are so-called "Public Good" matters like enforcing traffic regulations, etc. All else is illegitimate criminal activity.

Here's what John Locke had to say about that. BTW, he got this from Thomas Aquinas.

"A ruler who violates natural law is illegitimate. He has no right to
be obeyed, his commands are mere force and coercion. Rulers who act
lawlessly, whose laws are unlawful, are mere criminals, and should be
dealt with in accordance with natural law, as applied in a state of
nature, in other words they and their servants should be killed as the
opportunity presents, like the dangerous animals that they are, the
common enemies of all mankind."
--John Locke

Laws prohibiting law-abiding citizens from employing the reasonable, effective means of self protection - and that includes firearms and auto knives - are clearly illegitimate. Those in govt who persecute law-abiding citizens are criminals and should therefore be treated like the dangerous animals that they are.

That is not anarchy - it is Citizenship. And because we do not have the collective will to do it, we are a nation of cowards who deserve to be treated like the wimps we are.

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:18 pm

Gort wrote:It's not hard to see Ayn's roots in the USSR though. The book is
a direct analogy to how a communist government takes power
and holds it. Once exposed to western civilization, and Capitalism,
she became a staunch proponent for the Capitalistic philosophy.
Ayn sees socialism as an evil which undermines the Capatialistic
philosophy.

While I tend to agree with her, I'm not recommending anarchy,
(like she does) that's Vargant's bailiwick.

rcktexas wrote:
Vagrant wrote:A simple study of a wedge explains how laws in general evolve, anywhere
A simple reading of Atlas Shrugged will tell you why laws in general evolve the way they do. Just ask Tony Martin.

"Did you really think we want those laws observed? We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against. We're after power and we mean it."

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

"Who wants a nation of law abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, that's the game and once you understand it you'll be much easier to deal with."

--Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"

If I told anyone we were discussing: Ayn Rand, Capitalism, Communism, and anrarchy on a switchblade forum, I doubt they would believe me

Vagrant · Post by **Vagrant** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:23 pm

"Atlas Shrugged" is a longer and more detaied and well thought out description of a wedge, [start here < end up here]

Milu · Post by **Milu** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:28 pm

I would have described Ayn Rand's philosophy as being more about individualism and meritocracy. Whatever, her books could surely have used an editor to chop them down by about 20% .

Gort · Post by **Gort** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:32 pm

Spoken like a true citizen. Thank the maker I'm not from your
planet.

http://members.yourlink.net/jgerard/gort/stupid.wav

Perhaps I was not clear. Ayn, with the plot of her book, was
advocating anarchy in an attempt to quickly destroy a system too
corrupt to survive.

rcktexas wrote:
Gort wrote:While I tend to agree with her, I'm not recommending anarchy...

That is not anarchy - it is Citizenship. And because we do not have the collective will to do it, we are a nation of cowards who deserve to be treated like the wimps we are.

Milu · Post by **Milu** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:37 pm

Vagrant wrote: If I told anyone we were discussing: Ayn Rand, Capitalism, Communism, and anrarchy on a switchblade forum, I doubt they would believe me

Discussing switchblades on an Ayn Rand and politics forum really would be unbelievable

Greyblade · Post by **Greyblade** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:12 pm

Is Ayn related to Sally Rand?

Greyblade

rcktexas · Post by **rcktexas** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:13 pm

Vagrant wrote:If I told anyone we were discussing: Ayn Rand, Capitalism, Communism, and anarchy on a switchblade forum, I doubt they would believe me

It's all about freedom, dude.

"You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
--Robert A. Heinlein

rcktexas · Post by **rcktexas** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:23 pm

Greyblade wrote:Is Ayn related to Sally Rand?

Greyblade

No, but it was rumored that she was Alan Greenspan's lover at one time.

The Falcon · Post by **The Falcon** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:04 am

Greyblade wrote:Is Ayn related to Sally Rand?

I think they were twin sisters (separated at birth).

McEowen · Post by **McEowen** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:31 pm

Milu wrote:I would have described Ayn Rand's philosophy as being more about individualism and meritocracy. Whatever, her books could surely have used an editor to chop them down by about 20% .

You think? As I recall, when we finally meet John Galt and he explains himself his monologue drones on for 100 pages. You could skip dozens of pages at a time and not miss a thing . . . (the details of the above may not be exactly correct but that's how I recall it)

J-man · Post by **J-man** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:28 pm

Let there be Anarchy!

Post by **tequiza** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:55 pm

let there be beer

teq

Greyblade · Post by **Greyblade** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:02 pm

J-man wrote:Let there be Anarchy!

J-man,

I think your home and native land is well on the way. Didn't I hear that they just legalized marijuana by prescription up there? Now that's what I call national health. I'll bet you spend more time in doctors' waiting rooms now than ever before. No wonder you don't post much on this forum any more.

Greyblade

Teddy · Post by **Teddy** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:15 pm

tequiza wrote:let there be beer
teq

And an endless supply of chips...

Best wishes
Teddy