Boker improved cutlery

[jim d,]

Clearly a Massaro to me now that the additional photos have been posted. Great observation Bill - identifying it as a Massaro from the original pictures.

What always shouts Massaro to me are the shapes of the bolsters. Take a look at them and compare them to the several different shapes of bolsters on the German leverlocks, normal Massaro bolsters have their own distinctive shape. Massaro bolsters are normally stainless steel (not sure if they make the Leverletto which has nickel silver bolsters), as opposed to nickel silver normally used on German leverlocks, although the bolster material isn't always obvious in all photos.

Massaro made leverlocks normally have steel liners. German leverlocks can have brass, steel or nickel silver liners. Most of my German leverlocks, and those that I have seen are brass.

If you are wondering about my use of the terms "normal" and "normally", it is because it seems that every time someone uses "always" or "never" in describing knife attributes someone posts a photo proving them wrong.

Jim

[gravknife]

Sure looks a lot nicer than my examples with these natural scales .It will also give it more heft and a nicer feel in hand .
Still a very nice looking knife button_man .

The stamps were added when made and like Jim said the squarish front bolster is a good giveaway for these .I have a few German springers with steel liners and some with brass ,so it can be confusing .

Like I said I have only encountered them with plastic or wood scales ,but they must have come with other natural materials and I would certainly like one as they are decent knives .

[button_man]

...

So being a Massaro doesn't necessarily mean that it's an inferior knife or anything like that?

I find it odd that a manufacturer would add totally bogus markings as a routine business practice!

...

[whippersnapper]

A manufacturer didn't do it imo. (and my opinion is shit).

Being an Italian knife still means it is a good knife. It just means the price you paid was probably 50% too much.Again, jmo.

[jim d,]

Massaro makes a great leverlock, I have several and all are fine examples. I have no explanation for the stamp on your knife.

Jim

[Bill DeShivs]

It's possible that Boker contracted the knife-possibly after they discontinued the 712/713 series.
It's the first one I have seen.

[button_man]

...

I think I'm more confused now than when I started.

If Boker really did contract it, wouldn't the tree be on the left side of the text, like the examples shown in that link I posted? Has anyone seen a genuine Boker stamp with the tree on the right, like my knife?

whip -- if I overpaid by 50% that means it's only a $117 knife. That seems a tad low....
...

[whippersnapper]

Massaro still makes leverlocks like it. And they are around a hundred bucks. Maybe you get $17 extra if someone likes the aged horn look.
Of course the stamp, if it was done by the maker for Boker would add to that for uniqueness and rarity.I'm just basing on value of a Massaro knife.

Boker is still in business, Why not try contacting them and see if they ever contracted some knives to be made for them.

[button_man]

...

I suspect all knife companies are inundated with questions from the public, which is why many of them either make it difficult to contact them, or don't bother to respond, or both. But I'll give it a try.

This makes twice recently that I have bought knives that turned out to be suspect, and I have to decide whether I can stay in this hobby. To avoid the flood of fakes in the market, you need to possess an encyclopedic knowledge of them --which I don't. To acquire choice pieces such as Walt's Latama or Renzo Pascotto when they become available, you either have to have incredible luck or an inside connection; I have neither.

Collecting these knives is already pretty expensive. How many people can afford to keep making mistakes at $100 to $500 each time? No wonder there aren't a lot of new faces showing up in this forum. If this knife turns out to be a dud, I will possibly put this hobby on the back burner, and be content with the modest collection that I have now.

...

[jim d,]

Button_man - I understand your frustration, but don't get discouraged. Yes, you have had more than your share of bad luck. Regarding your recently acquired leverlock, you may well have a rare piece, just not in the way that you originally suspected. If Bill's and others thought that it could be a contract knife is correct, it is a very uncommon piece. Think about it - none of us on this thread (including Bill D) have ever seen one.

So what other likely explanations exist? Could it be a replacement blade? I don't know whether a blade configuration used for a German leverlock (total blade shape, pin hole placement etc.) would even fit a Massaro, maybe someone does. Could the stamp have been added after the knife the built? I don't know but doubt that someone would got through the considerable effort, but don't really know. What other explanations are likely? I'll ask a few collectors.

There is no inside track needed for Walt's or Renzo P's knives. Walt has a public website, latama.net I think and there ar some of us here that can provide a connection for Renzo P's. There is also the new "dolphin" line that are real Italian stilettos and I have heard good things about them.

Jim

[button_man]

...

Jim -- Thanks for the encouragement... I try not to make hasty decisions, so I'll wait to see how this situation plays out. In the meantime, any information on accassing the knives of Mr. Pascotto will be very welcome. I haven't heard of the 'dolphin' knives and look forward to hearing more.

...

[Bill DeShivs]

Just buy knives you like, at prices that appeal to you. This makes it simple.
In a practical sense, what difference does it make if a knife is "rare?"

That said, Massaro has built knives for a whole lot of companies- Klaas used their lever locks in their later days of existence. Many of the "German" folding bowies were made by Massaro.

And, anyone can have a stamp made for under $200.

Collecting knives is not like collecting toy cars or baseball cards. If you are collecting for monetary gain, you do need to research. MOST cutlery manufacturers made knives for other companies, and most made knives for resellers that never made knives themselves. This research can be as interesting as the knives themselves. I'm sort of caught in the middle. I see knives from a much different perspective that everyone else- from the inside out. I'm not particularly a researcher. Others do that better than me. But, you can't do what I do without gleaning some "inside" knowledge of knife manufacturing.

[Tom19176]

I agree with what Bill just said. I am not too big on what a tang stamp says. Bernard Levine always famously said " read the knife not what is says on it" If I like a knife regardless of what the tang stamp says, I will buy it for a fair price.

My late uncle collected stamps and if he bought a fake collectable stamp, he was stuck with a useless piece if paper. I buy a knife I like and meets a certain well made level that I accept then I don't care about the tang stamp.

[XBMX]

I've got one said to be a Massaro its out getting a detailing, tang stamped Rostifre over "Import" which I hadn't see before. Going into the FS once it get back.

[Bill DeShivs]

I believe the "Import" marked knives originally went to England or Canada. Other counties may have required the "import" or "foreign" marking.