Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

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Peiper
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Peiper »

That's a beauty Peiper! I have a similar 9" model. As you said, brass pivot, small ears, mine has tabbed brackets (no D stamp) and octagon shaped lock tab. As far as I know, each of these traits lean toward late 1940's (to me). I see no reason to think they aren't "real" Latama's, since they were importing from wherever they could get them...
The knives are legitimate. Why would someone mark the exact same knives that Latama sold?
I'm sure these were bought from stock in Italy. I'm also sure they were marked here, as Gorton pantographs were generally not available in Italy when the knives were made.
After doing pretty exhaustive research on these markings, I say the knives are legitimate. I was skeptical at first, but far too many have showed up, and they are all exactly like conventional-marked Latama/Coricama/Edwin Jay, etc. knives.
Thanks for the replies. Seeing and holding the knife in person, I agree that it is a real Latama. That is a very nice knife JV. Mine has no "D" stamp and octagon-shaped lock tab also. We forgot to mention the large safety cap.
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Bill DeShivs
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Bill DeShivs »

I did my research 20+ years ago, and the markings were not new then. They were aged the same as the knives.
There were more than a "handful" done this way. I have had probably a dozen through my shop, and have seen at least a dozen more. Some were Coricama-stamped knives (front) with Latama engraved on the rear.
My theory is a shipment of knives arrived here not marked with the Latama name, and they were engraved here to comply with regulations.
None have been seen with the front engraved. It was always stamped Made in Italy, Coricama, etc., and the rear was engraved with Latama. Perhaps it was a supply/demand thing, or even a mistake. These things have been showing up for 20+ years.
I can't prove it any more than you can disprove it- but for someone to have a bunch of the exact knives Latama was importing would have been unlikely, and it would have been unlikely for someone to engrave a Coricama-marked knife with "Latama."
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
METALGOD
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by METALGOD »

is there any evidence that latama even owned a (made in italy) stamp where they making knives for other companies and only stamping knives they made with just a (made in italy) stamp ?
import regulations state only country of origin is needed to be marked on blade so i dont think that theory is correct to where they were marked here to comply with regulations.
also why wouldnt another shop in italy be able to get same parts that latama was getting ? the same knife latama was making could have easily been made by another shop lol its not rocket science
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Bill DeShivs
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Bill DeShivs »

Latama didn't make knives.
Sam said he was told that his knives had to have his company's mark. I don't know who told him, or if it was correct, but he believed it.
Latama bought the knives in question from the Coricama consortium.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
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Jackalope
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Jackalope »

This debate has been going on as long or longer than I have collected knives.

There is NO evidence that they are real or fake.
We need to let it go and just appreciate these beautiful old knives. :arrow:
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Peiper
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Peiper »

One of the purposes of a forum is to exchange ideas, thoughts, and opinions. Thanks to everyone who contributed.

Peiper
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Panzerfaust
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Panzerfaust »

Here is my 11-inch Edwin Jay pantograph. I think these are legit because the engraved markings have only been seen on knives circa 1949 when there was a transition from the flat guard. All have skinny guards and octagon lock tabs.
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Peiper
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Peiper »

Thanks for your reply, Panzerfaust. That is definitely a rare Edwin Jay. Thanks for sharing!
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Panzerfaust
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Panzerfaust »

Peiper wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:03 am Thanks for your reply, Panzerfaust. That is definitely a rare Edwin Jay. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks and you have some great knives.
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Bill DeShivs
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Re: Vintage "Latama" with rare pantograph engraving.

Post by Bill DeShivs »

The Edwin Jay picture is a great example to learn from:
"Made in Italy" is stamped.
"Edwin Jay" is pantograph cut with a rotary cutter. If you look closely, or enlarge the picture-you will see that all of the corners of the letters are rounded because of the rotary cutter.

There is another type of pantograph engraving called diamond drag engraving that looks more like a stamp. A diamond stylus is dragged under pressure to cut the engraving in.
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
http://www.billdeshivs.com
Factory authorized repairs for:
Latama, Mauro Mario, LePre, Colonial, Kabar, Flylock, Schrade Cut Co., Presto, Press Button, Hubertus, Grafrath, Kuno Ritter knives, Puma, Burrell Cutlery.
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