Responsabilities- Manufacturer / distributor / dealer

[JerrBear]

Is there a posability that some of the dies for the older models are getting worn out??

Interesting - I hadn't considered that...

[gramps]

Is there a posability that some of the dies for the older models are getting worn out??

Interesting - I hadn't considered that...

If you think about the things that are wrong with them, (like the things that I mentioned in my last post) you'll realize that it's craftsmanship and not dies.

[natcherly]

Is there a posability that some of the dies for the older models are getting worn out??

Probably not an issue. While there are always exceptions, most stiletto makers over there actually buy parts, blades included, in bulk from others who specialize in that sort of manufacturing. Not like the old days where most stuff was made in house.

[Vagrant]

Anyone who expects Microtech $200+ CNC consistancy at well under $100 in a hand assembled knife is intellectually challenged [understatement]
Usually, when better [more expensive] items are presented, they sell like Edsels
[And, even the 1st Speed Hunters had more "peeking blade" problems than CNC produced knives].
This entire thread should have taken one question and ONE answer
Should quality/consistancy be better ?
Of course IF the price reflects that improvement
BUT, how well would that be accepted

[Furcs]

Anyone who expects Microtech $200+ CNC consistancy at well under $100 in a hand assembled knife is intellectually challenged [understatement]
Usually, when better [more expensive] items are presented, they sell like Edsels
[And, even the 1st Speed Hunters had more "peeking blade" problems than CNC produced knives].
This entire thread should have taken one question and ONE answer
Should quality/consistancy be better ?
Of course IF the price reflects that improvement
BUT, how well would that be accepted

Wow.. I hear you.,but that sounds more like a warning than anything, but thats okay too,,,,,

I don't care if it's a $25 knife or a $500 Microtech.. if I get a knife that won't open or scales that are marred , or.. My opinion is why should I feel like I haven't paid enough for what I thought I was buying ???. Absurd to me.

I'm not trying to go round and round with this but it doesn't seem right. I do respect your point.

[Milu]

Anyone who expects Microtech $200+ CNC consistancy at well under $100 in a hand assembled knife is intellectually challenged [understatement]
Usually, when better [more expensive] items are presented, they sell like Edsels
[And, even the 1st Speed Hunters had more "peeking blade" problems than CNC produced knives].
This entire thread should have taken one question and ONE answer
Should quality/consistancy be better ?
Of course IF the price reflects that improvement
BUT, how well would that be accepted

There's only one thing to add to Mr Vagrant's very valid post:

"Price, Quality, Service, pick any two!"

There are a few of us here who are involved in quality assurance in various ways, others like Nick are retailers and a lot of us trade knives for fun and profit as a pastime and to finance the next purchase.

I've seen posted a few times that we'd be willing to pay more for a better knife. I've certainly done it too many times to count and I'm not alone here. However, we are not the main market; we are collectors and afficionados, do most buyers even understand the difference between rubbish, ok and great? Maniago is churning out a product that sells, a quality of service it can get away with and prices for collectables that are cheap.

The best stilettos I've seen out of Manaiago are the Due Buoi forged stilletto and a couple of picklocks. The price for each of these was much more than a standard bolster release as is the latest Walt's flat guard, but the buyers are still buying the much cheaper standard knife. I've also had the luck to buy a lot of standard knives that were very good and I've seen a lot that were quite frankly rubbish.

Mr Vagrant posted a question; should quality and consistency be better? For me consistency is integral to quality, I have two cars that need body work right now - Do I go to the expensive bodyshop that does impecable work every time, or the cheap guy that can do great work when he's sober and if he feels like it?

[arthas]

Mr Vagrant posted a question; should quality and consistency be better? For me consistency is integral to quality, I have two cars that need body work right now - Do I go to the expensive bodyshop that does impecable work every time, or the cheap guy that can do great work when he's sober and if he feels like it?

Eh... difficult to say it better.

M.

[tanto]

As long as people keep buying crap there is no motivation for the manufacturer to improve quality. That is the reality.

Sorry but I did not go through all pages. I 100% agree with this statement. Dealers in US or anywhere else should stop buying the knives. Before we joined EU I used to drive to Italy to pick my own knives to ensure some quality. Now, when there are no customs involved when I buy from Italy I cannot make sure I will get 100% quality knives in my order. And I mostly get only about 80% of working knives. And I am not talking about dirt - I need to claean almost every knife. The problem is - the knives are being made by many people. Frankly - only the distributors actually know who are the manufacturers. One type/model of knife can be made by several people even families. There is no chance the quality will ever be consistent.

The only chance is that the distributors (like AKC) will stop buying inferior products from the individual manufacturers/makers and distributors in US will stop buying from them. Only revenue (or luck of it) can make them improve QC and do their work better.

David

[gramps]

As long as people keep buying crap there is no motivation for the manufacturer to improve quality. That is the reality.

Sorry but I did not go through all pages. I 100% agree with this statement. Dealers in US or anywhere else should stop buying the knives. Before we joined EU I used to drive to Italy to pick my own knives to ensure some quality. Now, when there are no customs involved when I buy from Italy I cannot make sure I will get 100% quality knives in my order. And I mostly get only about 80% of working knives. And I am not talking about dirt - I need to claean almost every knife. The problem is - the knives are being made by many people. Frankly - only the distributors actually know who are the manufacturers. One type/model of knife can be made by several people even families. There is no chance the quality will ever be consistent.

The only chance is that the distributors (like AKC) will stop buying inferior products from the individual manufacturers/makers and distributors in US will stop buying from them. Only revenue (or luck of it) can make them improve QC and do their work better.

David

The thing is that, I really don't feel as though the manufacturers in Italy even give a good crap whether we buy from them or not...They just as soon tell us to buy them elsewhere, Ha-Ha-Ha!... if we don't like what they send us,... period!.... Mark me if I'm wrong. They can sell plenty of their product elsewhere this I'm sure of.

[Furcs]

"Price, Quality, Service, pick any two!"

I've laughed at that line for years, always thought it was funny but never knew the origin. Can you believe it's been studied and has a name called the "Project Triangle"? There is even a wiki post on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_triangle, so what is one to do? I give up!

Hey, I'll keep buying but just have to say that I sure wish all Italian knives had the same quality as those with the Bill DeShivs signature. I'd buy Leveretto, Leveretto, Swing-Letto, Pocket-Letto, Belt-Letto, Gravity-Letto, Hidden release-Letto, Key Chain-Letto. Put it out there and if I see his name on the blade I'm in and I'm not kidding.

Am I wrong? The quality of a knife with the DeShivs name on it, at least to me, seems to jump exponentially.

[Jeff]

The Leverletto is the only modestly priced Italian knife that has solid nickel silver bolsters (not stamped stainless), this is one of the features I really appreciate.

[Bonzo]

I have attempted to be helpful and gracious on the forums. I don't consider myself above anyone. To see how some of you REALLY feel about me upsets me greatly.

Mr. Bill,

Some people just don't get it. You know, if the Italian makers start an agressive QC, the same people here who have been whining about defective knives will be whining harder when the price goes through the roof. Everybody wants a Rolls Royce at a Yugo price.

Best regards,

Bonz

[gramps]

Mr. Bill,

Some people just don't get it. You know, if the Italian makers start an agressive QC, the same people here who have been whining about defective knives will be whining harder when the price goes through the roof. Everybody wants a Rolls Royce at a Yugo price.

Best regards,

I'm sorry Bonzo but with all due respect I truly believe that the people here that are "winning" as you say, only want what is due them and that is they want what they paid for, what was advertised, what was made to be believe, "a working product" and that is without defect...nothing more.

[Furcs]

Almost like an old Sat Night live sketch that I saw, or some memory...

"Hey, we know you bought it, now you tell us you want one that works>?"

Good thing this is a hobby for me, but I realize it's not for many of you...

[Bill DeShivs]

If a dealer in Maniago would hand inspect each and every piece, and deal with the rejects there, AND guarantee to ship only the finest products, how popular would he be?
Now, if that same dealer charged 50% more, how popular would he be?
I am not in the import business, but from what I have seen and heard, AKC generally delivers the most consistent product. I'm not saying this because I am associated with AKC in a minor way-what I want to convey is that I did business with AKC BECAUSE they seemed to care about providing a quality product.
Since I am neither an importer or a dealer, I don't have my pulse on what kind of quality is being produced and can only assume this is still the situation.